Episode 484: Glow With Phil Storey

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Show Summary

Rob Cairns talks to Phil Storey about his WordPres product Glow.

Show Highlights:

1. What is Glow?

2. How is Glow different from its competitors.

3. Roadmap for Glow.

Show Notes

Hey, Rob Cairns here and today I’m here with Phil Storey coming to us from across the world from Google. How are you, Phil?

I’m good, rob. Good to be here. Thanks, man. Thanks for inviting me.

I was a pleasure you. And you’re halfway across the world because you’re coming to us from Lisbon, Portugal, are you not?

I am. I am indeed rainy, rainy, Lisbon, Portugal today. OK, so it’s not normally like. That.

So I’ll tell you Toronto is overcast and going to potentially rain too. It’s. Uncharacteristically warm again for this time of year, we’re headed to 23°C in November, so there you go.

No.

I’ll tie it up. I’ll tie it up.

So my friend, so I so I’m wanting to jump in before we talk about glow and the product and you know managing websites and maintenance plans and all that cool stuff, which. That’s agency owners take up part of but a. Lot of people. Don’t she get into WordPress and what’s the WordPress origin story?

Good question. So I guess it starts back in around about 20/10/2011 for me, so. Took it back a couple of years before that, so I went to university in in England and actually studied a construction related degree, which is clearly has absolutely no relation to to digital and web. But I guess I probably went to university more for the enjoyment of university rather than the degree I was. I was still doing but anyway got the degree left and kind of quickly decided that I I kind of knew I didn’t want to pursue a career in in construction, but of course was still young enough to try and figure out what I actually, you know, did want to do so.

That.

So yes, my journey with WordPress really starts. I was working for my brother at the time as a real estate agent, had a conversation with a friend who just he just created his own website for his his windows company. He was double glazing and and and windows and stuff. And I was like, oh, that’s really cool. Like you’ve built your website. Can you tell me how you did it? Like what? What did you what? Did you use? How did you design it? UM.

Because.

I think I’ve always had a like a a creative eye like an eye, an eye for design, so that sort of you know that hurdle was already jumped. If if you get me, I just obviously I’d never considered sort of you know development in in any way before. And so he had that chat with him. He gave me a few pointers. I ended up looking kind of online right to sort of teach myself. How to create websites ultimately and during the course of doing that I found a website calledlinda.com.

Oh yes, the warning site.

Which is yeah. Right. Which a lot of us have heard of before, right. I think LinkedIn. LinkedIn owned it now. Yeah, for for Microsoft. So, I mean, that was just amazing. That website like it had everything that I wanted to to learn at that time. Right. So it had all the HTML, CSS, JavaScript, you know, you name it in terms of coding languages.

Which? Own it. No. Yeah.

And that’s where I started. I started, you know, I taught myself how to write, you know, basic kind of HTML and CSS so that I could create websites, you know, static page websites. But through lynda.com I then found WordPress, right. There was these WordPress fundamental training or something. I think it was called in fact. I even remember the name of the tutor. Guy called James Williamson and that was me hooked at that point. Really. Ohh. You know, kind of coming off the back. Of trying to. Sort of build everything myself and I found WordPress and obviously immediately saw the benefit of it. So yeah, like I said, that was sort of back. Maybe a 20/10/2011 time and then like a lot of us, I think when we started our days in in web design you know kind of began building sites for family and local small businesses in the town that we were living in at the time. And and it grew grew from there really. So yeah that’s that’s how it all began.

That’s so cool. That’s that’s about the time a lot of us got into work. Plus, was that 20/09/2010 I’m.

Right.

I’m a little bit before that, but not much and I don’t regret it. I mean I I got into it simply because I was building sites for family projects. I was working full time. And at the time.

Yeah.

And I was doing static sites and interestingly enough. I got fed up with my family calling me for simple questions. So I started creating an FAQ HTML site and said by the way, till you read the site, you don’t bug me. And then I would I’m the one in my family who takes, organizes pictures and stuff from family events. And in those days we didn’t have like Google Photos and stuff like that. So they all went on a web page and you know, all that stuff and that that was kind of my entry in the WordPress. I never plan to go there professionally. You did, but that’s that’s another story, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was it.

Was also quite good timing. I think around then because it was right around the time that the the whole responsive design, you know thing was was talked about and kind of launched, I guess as a concept.

Yeah.

So yeah, right, right at the time I got into learning how to build sites was at that time that people, you know, had started to build them responsibly. So yeah, I kind of learned all of that at the at exactly the right time. I think so. That was a neat, neat time.

Yep. I’m I’m responsive is so key because.

Aye.

You know, 70% of, I would say it’s got to be closer to 70 of all searches are done on a phone or an iPad or a tablet now. And I mean I think myself, I got a a bill by e-mail this overnight one I’ve been waiting for. And I got up this morning. I hadn’t even turned my laptop on. And what did I do? I grabbed my iPad and paid the bill on a responsive device. Right and. So we all worked out well.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, it’s. I mean, it’s just every day now, isn’t. It we I. Would imagine one of the first things pretty much all of us do right in the morning is pick up the phone and deal with some things on there so.

I I I. I actually don’t. I I stopped them.

OK, nice. You got a you got a healthier meeting.

I stopped doing that a long time ago, but yeah, I mean it’s and and I and I don’t know about you, but. I also work mobile all the time, so today I’m working on home, but I often work. I’ll go to a coffee shop. I’ll I’ll the Toronto areas that are a really good train and regional bus network and if I’m on a regional bus for an hour, I’ll have a laptop on my lap doing something. I mean, I use my time so.

Yeah, I often do that. Yeah. Yeah, I do that when I I get a flight. Like back to the UK or whatever. I usually sort of prep prep some work beforehand so I can work. Offline and stuff and.

Yeah.

Kind of always on the go, but that’s that’s the.

That’s the life of a busy.

It’s funny, you were talking about responsiveness and it’s interesting because I was thinking back to responsive themes and there were a couple right, there was studio pressed by Brian Gardner at the time that was pretty drunk and.

Uh.

Rings a bell? Yeah.

Then. And I know Brian pretty well, there was headway themes and I don’t need to get into that tobacco, but if you know the history. Like themes, it was a big, brash and dumpster fire at the end of that mess and and they kind of started it off really. And then. And then we got into this whole age builder thing where Beaver Builder came out and elementary came out.

Yep.

And yeah, I don’t know if people know, but the number one selling theme on theme force is a theme called the Veda that’s been around forever that has its own built in Page builder.

Yeah, I know it. I know it know it fairly well. We we used it, I think a couple of times during my my agency days and in fact it just got a mention. Today on one. Of. My LinkedIn. Posts by somebody actually, so yeah, that’s been around a long time. The first one I remember was divvy, I think, and that’s.

Of course, busy, busy. Try out again, yeah.

The first one I I remember well.

And Aveda was actually.

Going back, going back. Probably 10 years there, I think.

They actually drove by agency site until I moved the block and now we’ve got Gutenberg in the middle of it all. And that whole ecosystem, so life center.

Right.

It is.

Let’s talk. Let’s talk about go. What? What is ghost? You wanna talk about that?

Sure.

So it’s it’s a WordPress management tool. Basically you know, if you’ve ever heard of products like managed to be P main WP, we’re we’re essentially a new competitor to to those guys. We’re a little bit different, right you know whereas whereas the vast majority of that market focuses on essentially the maintenance tasks. For looking after WordPress sites, we kind of roll maintenance, client support and reporting into into one dashboard basically. So yeah, like I said, a little bit different. It’s all born out of my my agency days basically Rob. So back back in the UK, I ran a a word press agency for about. About 5, about 5-6 years and a big part of what we we did was was the, you know, the management and support of of those WordPress sites that we were building, right, you know like like a lot of US agency owners do, right? It’s, you know, so many reasons. It’s a it’s a great service to to have in the businesses and it’s nice recurring revenue stream.

OK.

Helps you, you know, with the potential of selling in other things to those clients obviously that that the longer they stay with you, so, so.

And no, and the reality of it is those clients aren’t going to manage their own websites no matter. How much I we were saying before we went to record how much clients plane. They’re gonna do this. They’re gonna spend the time and do this. They’re gonna make it happen for not. I mean usually where I get calls is five months later and says, you know, I got a virus or I’ve been hacked or my intern did something stupid.

It’s actually.

And by the way, I don’t have it backed up. Ohh and. You’ve heard these stories.

Can you help me, please? Yeah. Oh yeah. Experienced a few of them. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Or or even.

Better. No, you’re right.

The better one was I have backup buddy running but I don’t know where my offline backup has gone because it’s not documented anywhere.

Well, the reality is that the vast majority of. Of clients aren’t. Technical and they’re not technical, certainly in the sense of understanding the ends and outs of maintaining your website, right? So you know that’s that is the reason that they don’t, they don’t do it then themselves, right, there’s there’s a lot to it. There’s a lot to properly, you know, reliably maintaining a a WordPress site, right and. They they are. I’m not skilled in doing so, which is why you know I always. Like. To clients investing in a quality support and maintenance services and extremely valuable in investment of theirs, you know that the website is often should. It should be like the number one salesperson in their business, right? So it pays. It really does pay to invest in quality, support, maintenance. So. So yeah. I mean just, yeah, I guess. Going back to to my agency days, you know that was a big part of our service and we actually used manage WP right and my agency today, we used it for about four years, primarily because it. Was. Certainly back in the day, it was the only one that existed at the time. And then. Obviously other alternatives came out. And Glory was born out of that, really, because it was good, right? It was a good tool for, for, for the maintenance stuff, you know, bulk plugin and theme management, you know up time monitoring and backups it was. Good for that. But ultimately, you know, a care plan, service, support and maintenance service, whatever you want to call it the support element. Is a huge part of that service and and ultimately we found in my agency that managed WP didn’t didn’t give us anything on the support side, it was only the maintenance side. So so the support stuff we had to do by e-mail to start with, which got very messy, the bigger that we got.

Oh yeah.

And then later we moved on to a ticket system called Fresh Desk.

Oh yeah, I know fish. That’s well.

And.

And it’s good. That’s another really good product to put support ticket desk. Ultimately we found it had kind of too many features. We need it to have you know everything that it was it was quite like a serious size but a kit. But I guess that was kind of a light bulb moment for me really was that well you know when I looked across the the market of WordPress management products they all. Data to the maintenance side. None of them catered to the support side. Yeah, and I certainly knew that for for us in our agency there was great value in in being able to bring that into one.

Sport.

And for for for loads of reasons. So that’s why I created glow right to kind of, you know, bring bring it into, bring it into one space. And I figured that if there’s value for us, there’s probably gonna be other agencies around the world that would get value from the same the same.

I agree. Thing. So it’s a self hosted in WordPress. Pardon.

No, it’s a SAS. It’s a it’s it’s a SAS. Yeah, we.

Fine.

Still have our own plugin right? So. Again, like like all of the products on the market to kind of connect to a website and glow, you do need to install our plugin, but you just follow the. Steps in the in the software basically, yeah.

So I have. To go there, because the minute you introduce another plugin, you introduce another security issue right? And have you had any issues with anybody hijacking that plug in to doing the various things?

That’s true. Yeah, that’s true.

No, we haven’t. So you can’t access the Globe plugin on the repository. For example, you can’t sort of search for glow in the in. The plugin repository no touchwood. No, we’ve been out. We’ve been OK so far. Obviously during the phase when we. In beta and kind of getting things going, minimum viable products and stuff. Of course we had various bugs and things to get resolved, but that’s all part of the process. But now I’m happy. Happy to report that the plug in itself is very lightweight, right? It’s it’s, it’s, it’s tiny and it really all it does is ensure that you know, whenever you perform an action in glow, it updates. That’s in WordPress and and and and vice versa. You know if you were.

Yes. Yeah.

To log into WordPress. And I don’t know. And you noticed there were 5 updates performed you, you could run them in WordPress and Glow would know about it. And then kind of record that those actions have been performed. So it’s it’s a pretty tiny plugin really in that regard, so.

OK.

Yeah. And I take it as most of these products certainly installs pretty easily, log in to the SAS status board, say deploy the plug in, make the connection with an in min account and you’re probably done, right.

That’s right, takes about 15 to 20 seconds to to connect to a new site. To glow. Yeah, you just you just give glow the URL. And then you you then log into WordPress, install and activate our plugin and and it and it’s done. So there’s no usernames or passwords required or anything like that, no connection keys. It’s it’s simply just activating the plugin so.

Yeah, super easy.

So that’s really easy pricing. So we always get into the support, especially as agency people and I have to go there because.

Now please. Yeah.

It’s always. So how does the price out like in comparison to other products on the market? Can you get into that?

I mean, there’s a bit of a spread in in all. Honesty across the. Market. There’s a bit of a spread like like lots of things in WordPress. There’s quite a few that are kind of entirely free. You know, you could sign up for for example, manageable, manageable, you could use it completely free for forever really if you just stick to the very basic, the very basic. Set of features. And then you know, they go right up to. You know, some of these, some of the other players that you know you, you could get a plan, there’s a. $1000 a month, for example. So, and I’d like to think ours is pretty, it’s pretty flexible. OK, so you you have the sort of classic. SAS tiered pricing with GLOW. So there’s there’s three different plans and on each plan you get a a set quota of websites that you can manage, right. So for example on the on the bottom plan, you can manage up to 20 sites, it’s fifty U.S. dollars a month. So it works out about 250. Is that my maths right there? Yeah, about 2:50.

That’s about right, yeah.

That was never my strong. Point. But what we introduced fairly recently was like a a flex a flex option, if you will. So you could hit that 20 sites and instead of being forced to upgrade to that next plan where the limit is 50, you can just pay as you go, you know 212223 sites. So that just keeps you you know in. In control a little more over what over what you’re spending, I guess. And then ultimately the more sites that you add, the lower the per site rate is as you you know grow so you get up to you know 102 three, 4500. Likes and which I know is. Is yourself rob of? Course you know, with some competing products, the price per site never changes. Yeah, so you’re not kind of rewarded for adding any more sites, whereas in glow you are right that that per site rate does does fall. The the more that you add.

Yeah. One of the things you mentioned was reporting. And yeah, that’s that’s like a double edged sword as far as I’m concerned. Cause one of the things I’ve learned and doing some SEO I’ve learned doing maintenance plans I’ve learned. Clients the extreme about reports because they have to justify to the bean counters and I don’t know what they actually look at them.

Yeah, I know, I know. What you mean, yeah.

So where? Where do you sit on the whole reporting fence?

I sit firstly in agreement with you there that, yeah, it would be fairly unlikely if I was to send a a report to my client today about their website and it was 15 pages long. It would be fairly unlikely that they would sit and, you know, flip through those 15 pages, you know, when they sit down at their desk each morning. Uh.

And.

I think. However, that that. Doesn’t particularly matter necessarily. You know whether they, you know, really read it, read it, cover to cover, in my opinion. It’s the act of sending it, and therefore the acts of the client receiving it at all. That’s the important bit, right? The fact that that e-mail drops into their inbox every week or every month or every quarter, that just says, hey, it’s Rob, you know, this is what we’ve done to look after your website in the last week or the OR. The last month.

If they open it and read it.

Yeah, maybe. You know, maybe they will, maybe they won’t. But the fact that you’re dropping in and keeping in touch and proving the value of that service to them on a regular basis, for me that’s the important bit because.

I I agree. I agree. Water.

If I go back to my agency days, I know the the when we lost clients from the care plan retainers, it was often because we’ve done. A A ******. Job of of, of of Proving the value of the service right, we’ve lost touch with them. We’ve not sent them a report. We’re not, you know, drop them a call or whatever. And and of course the, the, the flip, the flip side of that is making sure that you do that regularly, whether they read it or. Not, I think it’s. Yeah.

So one of one of the things I think care plan agencies make a mistake of doing is they take the what the client doesn’t want anything we won’t bother them because they’ll mean work. Yeah. And I think you need to reach out to your clients on a regular basis and say hey, how can?

Yeah.

I agree.

To help you, the other thing I do very frequently is all my clients go on my mailing list automatically and one of the things in the laws in both end in the US is that they’re paid client. You don’t need them knocked in, you can add them as long as they don’t opt out. Now I always tell my clients if you opt out.

Yeah.

And you get no notifications or changes, you get no notifications of when I’m away. So if you choose that Ave. you go ahead. What? And and it’s the same reason I don’t like out of sight, out of mind so. One of the things I did this morning. Is at the time is recorded. We know we’re for 6.7 is 2 -, 7 days and counting. I sent my clients out an e-mail and said by the way there’s a major update coming out next week just. Be. Warned so my clients all know. That there’s an update coming next week.

I was about to say that. You know, aside from just the kind of standard reporting that you can send to them, I know of a lot of really good agencies that are kind of even more proactive about it. So that’s a good example there, Rob, where you know, you know this updates coming out, it’s a major one. You’re letting your clients know about it. And the fact that you’re on top of it, right? So that just says to them they don’t have to do any. In all, they have to do is read that ohh Cool Rob’s on top of it with the website. Then I’ll move. I’ll move on to what else I need to move on so that sort of proactive. There’s a good friend of mine runs an agency in Scotland called called Jelly Hound and he’s they they they do a lot of that proactive stuff, right? So they’ll, I don’t know, they’ll fix something that’s just, you know, occurred this week that.

Very happy, yeah.

You know, the client hasn’t necessarily told them about it. They just found it as an agency and they’ll say, oh, hey, just to let you know, this cropped up this week, we. Sorted. It out, you know X. Said, you know, if we can help with anything, let us know. Kind of thing, so it’s. Just that. Yeah, I think anything you can do to just, yeah, consistently prove the value of the service is only gonna. It’s only gonna help you. And I think obviously there’s so many. There’s so many pieces of software like GLOW. Now that you can use to just automate a lot of it as well. It doesn’t necessarily have to take you lots of time. Neither. Right. So. So there’s a no brainer really.

Yeah, yeah, being being being a a full stock market in concierge, one of the things I do is I send my clients out hips all the time. And it’s it’s. And it’s funny because.

Yeah. Nice.

That usually generates the revenue. They’ll read it and say I don’t want to do this, but I I need to do this so help and things like that. So thing in touch is actually a good thing, to be honest with you.

Yeah, yeah.

Totally is.

OK so. Do I have to ask? I take your gross reports to a fair 2 factor authentication when you. Log in with us.

It does. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. You’ve a yeah. It’s a bit of a. Bit of a non negotiable these days really isn’t.

It you know so.

I I think anybody who’s using a product like this because it gives them access to the world. In my case over 400 websites, you better have two FA.

Precisely.

Or not. And you’d better be using 2FA, either through a security key or an app, not a text message ring.

Yeah.

Yeah, it’s all through an app. Yeah, yeah, it’s. Actually Google Authenticator off the. Top of my head so.

I, which is my Apple choice actually.

Yeah, yeah, it’s a it’s a no brainer. You gotta turn that. On right. Like you. Say. Gives people the keys to the Kingdom. Really. If you don’t have it, you know if you don’t have it on and something something goes wrong. So even between teammates. Right you wanna. Make sure that. It’s, yeah, protected as well, so.

Yeah. So we talked about that. Go right you run. Backups from within go. Or do you?

Yeah. So.

Have to go to the WordPress site.

Yeah. So you can configure most things through Globe. So we don’t actually have our own backup engine. We did actually start building 1 for our early early days and essentially realise that it’s a hell of a thing to build and get stable. And and get. Right. You know, like many of the things in this space, right? So that was just a strategic decision changed by myself really to switch from what we were building to, to integrating with a tried and tested provider basically. So it’s actually updraft, updraft plus that that kind of hours all the backups through glow.

And.

And I think ultimately it’s kind of like a minor inconvenience. I guess that if you’re not already using up draft on your client sites and you wanna have backups going through in glow, you gotta set up the updraft plugin. But you can do it from glow. You can configure the schedules from glow all the, you know, everything still gets included in your client reports. So. Yeah. And ultimately it just brings you the power of one of the most trusted, reliable backup solutions on the market, right? So why reinvent the wheel if it’s already there? So it’s it’s, it’s.

A very powerful product, yeah.

I mean I I think the three big ones are probably updraft. All would back up which used to be back up buddy. And then the other one that comes to mind is all-in-one backup and migration tool. They’re kind of the big, there’s some other ones out there.

Yeah, all in one WP migration. Yeah, that’s a good one. Yeah, we tested, obviously tested. Them all before we. Shows kind of the integration, but yeah, but the bottom line is, you know, any customer of glow if they want to run backups, they just want them to work. They just want the backups to work reliably. And if something goes wrong, they wanna be able to restore. So you get all of that through the through the flow control panel. So similar to the uptime feature. OK, so we have an uptime monitoring feature. All of that is powered by.

That’s right.

Uptime robots pretty much, you know. The most you know. Stuff one of the most famous upside monitoring ones. Yep. So you don’t need an uptime robot account like you only need a glow account. So we just we integrate through their API. So whenever you add a site into glow, if you want to turn on uptime monitoring you get kind of all the power of their tech.

I like Cortana.

Behind it so. Super reliable again in terms of monitoring.

Do you do anything like security monitoring from within goal or is that or have you left that out to the extraneous? So.

So we have.

A A security vulnerability feature which is powered. By. Powered by word fence. Again you know on this occasion you don’t need to install the word fence plugin, it’s all through there vulnerabilities API. OK, so they obviously have a vast database of known security vulnerabilities across core versions, plugins and themes and then all glow does.

OK.

Is just match. You know match their database to any websites in in your account basically and if there’s any matches you know about it, you get a description of what’s you know what the problem is, what the issue is, what the severity level is, whether there’s been a patch. And then how to fix it? Which is, you know, 9 times out of 10 it’s just update to the latest version, right. And but then then that gets neatly recorded in kind of our version of an activity log. It’s called timeline. And then of course that pulls into reports as well. So kind of everything, everything is, yeah, tracked, I guess over time. Yeah.

I think that’s important. Like security is just so much a part of the web game. I think people.

For sure, yeah.

Don’t worry about it or agencies who don’t sell it. I think they’re. Really doing a disservice to the clients that really do like the hackers we saw when COVID hit. The hackers took advantage. They were all at home. They were all bored. So hacking attempts have gone way up and if you read any of the.

Yeah.

Millions of one security vulnerability lists out there. They’ve gone way up the last couple of years. I think the pools are getting better. I also think AI has caused a lot of the issues right now. I mean AI AI has a lot of great uses. I’m an AI Gemini user. I’ll say that every day, but a lot of a lot of people are.

Oh yeah, yeah.

Shall we say, not managing security really well. So that’s a big deal.

I mean, we see it, right? We we we can see it in glow the sites that are being well, well protected, well looked after well maintained and you know unfortunately there’s there’s some that you know get still get neglected right but it’s yeah you’re right it’s a very important thing to stay on top of you know.

Is there any other feature you’d really like to highlight and go?

Well, I guess like I said at the start, kind of the unique element of glow mainly is the is the support offering, right? So I mean. The. The maintenance stuff you’ll. Have been used to, you know, for years if you’ve used other products like Main main. And managed BP so. I’d like to think we’ve called off the, you know, the vast majority of that maintenance stuff and then you know, to to pair that up with the support side. It’s a really powerful dashboard, to be honest. Because. Yeah, it’s, you know, it’s the place for you to handle all your client support requests as well. So e-mail gets messy. So you. Don’t have. To do it there separate support ticket tool is is nice, but it’s even nicer when it’s in the same place as all your maintenance stuff, right, because. It brings. Everything together, you know, so you can one click log into the WordPress dashboard, it all gets automatically added into your client reports.

Yes.

Yeah, you know numerous benefits in that regard really. And I guess a key one is the fact that. So. You don’t have to get your clients to log in to a dashboard to create tickets, and you know they can do it all from their e-mail, right? They can just send you an e-mail.

So what I’m going to when I’m going to tell these clients are not going to log into a dashboard.

Just create it as a ticket.

Now there you go. I I mentioned that at the right time.

Then, didn’t I? It’s true.

They they will not do it. I I have fun there.

Yeah, not many, not many. There are some, I think. It’s because we’ve got the data in glow. It’s I think it’s about 9:00. It’s like 90 to 95% of tickets raised are raised, are raised from e-mail. So it’s funny because in our beta products, we actually didn’t have that feature. We had it where you had the the client had to log in and we got. So many customers.

Saying no, no, no, we we.

Need them to be able to raise. It from e-mail, so that was.

You’re not connected.

A big that was. A big, big step forward when we added that so.

They’re not going to do it. They’re just.

No, no, it’s very, very rare that the that they log in, but the options there if they want to, you know the the the options there, but yeah it’s it’s very commonly done by e-mail which is great. So it’s easy for the client, the client doesn’t have to change behaviour, they just raise an e-mail when they get a reply from the agency it’s it’s in the same thread. So they can just track it all and and see their history. And then of course for the agency. These you know where there’s different team members that need assigning to different clients to different tickets. It’s it’s really, really helpful to have that all. All that in one place. So yeah.

Hmm. If somebody wants to check out, go find out more, get some more advice before they make a change or investigate into a new product.

Hmm.

What’s the best way?

Just go to our website, rob, so it’s get glow dot IO, GETGLOW dot IO and then yeah, there’s there’s everything you need to to know about the product really is is is on the website. We’ve actually just launched a new kind of on demand demo video. So it’s it’s only two minutes long bit less actually. Just give you a really good overview of you know of how of Outlook can help can help you. Basically if you know if you’re managing lots. Of WordPress sites, so it’s. All there, there’s a chat functionality as well, so you can talk to the support that and the sales guys whenever you need to. And and yeah, I think we call the information that you might want to want to know about is that. I’m. Very active on LinkedIn. If you just search the full story on LinkedIn. I’m on there pretty much every day, usually having great conversations that relate to WordPress.