Episode 187: Talking SEO with John Locke

Show Summary

Rob Cairns sits down with John Locke to talk SEO.

Show Highlights:

  1. Why Seo?
  2. How long does SEO take?
  3. What is a Google My Business Page and Why You Need One.
  4. SEO TIps
  5. How website speed impacts SEO.

Show Notes



Everybody Rob Cairns here today I’m here with John Locke of Lock Down SEO.

How are you today, John?

I’m doing well, how are you?

Rob not too bad.

It’s a pleasure to finally get you on this podcast.

You know we’ve had many a Twitter conversation over the years, and I don’t.

We’ve never actually spoken.

So welcome.

Oh well, thank you for having.

Me my pleasure.

So how did you?

Let’s get some little bit of background which I like.

To do with everybody have one.

How did you get into the CEO business and how did that kind of transpire?

Well before I got into the SEO business I I started doing web design.

I I was actually in my late 30s and I was working at the Wonder Bread plant.

I had been a member of the Bakers Union.

I had managed bakeries for Safeway.

I’d moved over to wonder.

I saw that whole Union the pension was getting defunded.

My body was having repetitive motion injuries and I decided that I wanted to make a career change and I wanted to do something that I could do.

For you know the remaining decades in my life, so I studied web design and I started doing that full time about nine years ago.

And and I did that for a while.

It was building sites for local clients.

I was doing a lot of subcontracting.

Developmental builds for larger agencies. Round 2000 late 2017. Early 2018 we decided to make a shift to SEO.

Because I had seen that that is the end result of what people really want when they get a new website.

Is more traffic they want more revenue?

They want more leads.

So I had had some success doing some smaller side projects with that, so I started kind of changing my positioning around that, focusing more on SEO.

And very luckily I think it was around 2018. I had a. I got one of my very first like SCO clients and they were doing, I think high five figures a month. Right now they’re doing.

Multi $1,000,000.

Uh or yeah per year they were they were doing high five figures per year.

I should say.

And now they’re doing like in the millions they referred me to a lot of people so I I got a lot of different clients like that.

I I also focus the content on my site.

More around C.

Oh, they started doing SEO videos on on YouTube.

I actually got a lot of clients from different places around the country just from that they would see some random video that was answering a question that they had and right now I have.

About 10 or 12 people.

That are on the roster right now and that is plenty.

For me, but most of them are in the industrial or home services or manufacturing space, and then a couple outliers.

But all of those are really solid businesses that aren’t going anywhere and.

Yeah, so that’s that’s my story from the beginning to now.

That’s an amazing journey, John.

One of the things you touched on was, she said, you know, you answer questions in a YouTube video and you pick up business that way, and I think that’s something a lot of small business owners miss.

I always say go out there and help people and when you help people, they’ll come back to you and reward you with business.

Right, so I think.

More and more people need to actually do that.

Well, absolutely you know.

No matter what it is, I have a couple of home services clients.

We’re very successful with adding information where it answers questions on the site.

We create pieces of content and put them on their site and they get a lot of traffic and they get a lot of business.

I’ve noticed.

And you don’t always know like what questions that you’re answering are going to end up bringing you business.

You could write that blog post that answers a question and it might end up ranking really well and you might get a lot of business from that, but it always pays to be doing that to be creating content.

You know whether it’s a blog post or a video.

Or both preferably, but all that goes out, or a podcast like this one.

Or a podcast.

Post this one.

All that goes out there and people find it.

And then they turn to you because you answered the question so and you demonstrated that you were knowledgeable so.

Yeah, so so true.

Let’s talk some generalities before we dive deep.

So what do you come?

Think about this comment.

Let’s just go out and get Joost in the green, white, yellow.

A light switch fixes all my problems.

Yeah, so I was.

Yeah I I was talking with a friend the other day and.

You know we.

We were discussing that there was a lot of people in SCO community that disparage.

Because of that mentality, the red light green light yellow light it does.

Doesn’t it? It it it?

Only looks at like maybe like 3 or 4% of the problem. OK cool, you have your keyword in the title that’s important.

But the most important thing that you need to be doing is having the right content on the page.

And if you don’t have that, if you don’t have.

A link profile that looks like a large company in your space.

And, uh, if you don’t have good user signals.

A good user experience on your site if you don’t have those three main things on your site, your red light yellow light green light isn’t going to do very much, and you’re going to wonder why.

Yeah, I I would agree with.

I would agree with that and then the second thing I kind of wanted to touch on was.

I always say to people CEO is a long term strategy and it’s not a set and forget it strategy as you and I both know.

And if you want a faster ROI, maybe you should be looking at ads in the meeting time until you get your SCO strategy set.

What do you touch on that one?

Well, I’m OK.

There are definitely some sectors where you must run ads in order to succeed.

And the reason being is.

For the queries in those spaces.

Like the keyword searches like you’re doing in Google, Google will add four or five ads at the top of the page, and if you don’t buy those ads, somebody else is going to.

However, if you look at anything that has to do with.

Home services or or construction or anything like that.

If you’re on Yelp, which is usually the number one or #2 result for any of those local searches, they have 10 sponsored ads before they get to any of the organic. If you don’t buy those ads, somebody else is going.

Now, if you’re doing something like web design, you probably.

Don’t necessarily need to buy ads.

The the the leads that you’re you’re going to get from.

Ah, Google ads or Yelp ads.

Or probably they they don’t match up to what some of these other places are that are getting ads.

If if.

Definitely people are on Google.

It’s got the biggest market share of any search engine and the ads are there for people who aren’t ranking in the map.

And they’re not ranking on page one of organic.

So until you get there, if you need to turn on the faucet of revenue.

Then yeah, you need to run ads in some place in some sectors you must.

I I would agree with that.

Yeah, and and let’s jump into what I really wanted to jump into was local SEO ’cause in some industries like restaurants like retail like even web design local for a lot of people matters.

And I think the business, the biggest thing that businesses miss is creating what we now call Google My Business page.

And we know that those of us in the business that terminology is shifting, but.

Yeah, wouldn’t you agree that’s the biggest bang for your buck?

Right off to talk?

Well, yeah, that is definitely the biggest thing.

Google the Google Business Profile is it’s.

Going to be called.

They can create that from other information.

They can aggregate it from other sources on the web, but that’s probably not ideal because they’re going to get your your business categories wrong and it’s going to be a really weak profile.

The best thing that you should do is.

Control create your Google My Business profile.

Put all the information in there.

Put your logo in there.

Put all your hours of operation.

Get the business categories right.

Making sure that you’re in the in the right category is a big factor.

Another thing that you’re you’re going to want to do with that is make sure that you have a picture of the outside of your physical location.

If you have a physical location with your signage.

And and get a lot of positive reviews.

That’s really important.

But definitely, that’s the foundation.

But you’re also going to need.

To appear on other places you know your social social media profiles for sure you gotta have all your major ones.

But Yelp.

Super important in local.

I have seen people jump.

In Google rankings, just by adding a Yelp and this is again this is the thing where we talk about what Google expects to see.

I’ve had this happen with a couple different clients in the past where they didn’t want to Yelp because they’re afraid people who were going to write a bad review, but Google expects to see a business like theirs with a Yelp, so when they added the Yelp they got a few reviews.

Their rankings in Google jumped.

So yeah.

I also think you know we talk about certain sectors and before we in the pre show we were talking about a little bit about the restaurant industry and what most people don’t get is if I’m out and about and I’m search.

Uh, Chinese food in an area.

The odds are I’m probably gonna walk into that Chinese restaurant or call them within the first couple minutes after I do the search and I would say to people.

Well, why don’t you make it easier for them to call them?

Call you because if they’re on mobile and they’re doing the search, they’re gonna call you guaranteed almost or they’re gonna walk in and say I want food right?

So why not make?

It easy, right?

You know and.

Yeah, you have to.

You have to do that, yeah?

And one of the easiest ways to do that is on your.

Especially WordPress site is put a call now button down on the bottom so when they find you then they can just push a button and call you.

Well, you’re going to want to do.

That anyway because.

Some of these other services will like say for example, if you are a restaurant and you’re opted into Grubhub or DoorDash or any of these ones, you’re going to get eaten up by the fees that these platforms charge.

You want to have.

A website where people can call you directly.

Come to where they can order directly from you.

So you’re not you’re circumventing some of those fees that you’re getting chewed up by.

Very important, and the menu in regular HTML, not a PDF.

Super important.

So yeah, and and a trick for that is you could do up that menu and something like word if you choose to and there’s a couple really cool word HTML converter so it would take the Word document, dump it in and it will give you the HTML code to throw to say you know, right?


It’s just done, so.

I mean, there’s an easy trick for anybody trying to worry.

Worried about doing that because what people don’t realize is the PDF.

It’s not searchable, so I wouldn’t be. I would try to avoid doing PDF’s on my website.

At all costs.

Right, John?

Yeah, I mean.

You, I mean people on their phone.

I mean they can pinch and zoom, but it’s really not ideal.

It’s just so difficult to.

I mean look Google can’t.

They’re not really good at seeing all the text in an image or the text in a PDF, and it’s just not user friendly.

You want to make it as frictionless as possible.

So yeah, just you know, type everything out in a word doc.

Put it on your.

Site publish that menu like that and.

Your Google My Business, UM?

Will will pick some of that up as well because they have a spot for the menu there, which you can.

You can add stuff if you’re a restaurant.

Yeah so.

What is besides creating a Google My Business?

Getting it set, probably.

What is the next best thing?

A small business can do for local beyond getting on something like Yelp, where would you go from there?

Right so.

Depending on what type of business you are.

Every type of industry has like these third party sites where you can get different listings.

Uhm, you want to make sure that you have all of these?

You know if you’re a home contractor, you’d want to be on HomeAdvisor porch, thumbtack?

YP possibly blue book.

Angie’s List, these are all things that Google expects you to have a listing on. Now you don’t need to pay them for ads, even though.

A lot of these places will try and solicit that ad money.

And you can turn on that faucet for leads.

You know when you need to, but you want to look at the search results and see what other sites like that or appearing at the top.

You know for web designers or people in marketing, you’ll see things like upcity clutch.

Those all appear really high in a lot of places, so you’d want to get listed in all those places, and some of them too.

They do a screen.

Like expertise, so they’ll screen different ones, so you can’t just like appear there, just you know you have to have something on your site that it proves that you have.

That knowledge, the other thing I would say is invest in a really good site with a lot of robust content and that is.

Very well designed, this is a thing that that Google has said.

That they don’t necessarily.

They don’t have to have Google Analytics.

They’ve just said that they don’t have to have Google Analytics on the site in order to tell if people are happy with the.

Search or not.

And one thing that I’ve noticed is sites with really well designed good design.

They seem to rise in ranks over time versus sites that are kind of shabbily designed.

Sets and everything I would do and for local as well.

If there are any type of things that are running in your area like you know best of Toronto or you know best of Sacramento.

Those types of lists, whether it’s sponsored by a local magazine or a local award singer or local website, anything like that is.

Going to be good for your overall local SEO as many of those as you can possibly get because they just serve to prove to Google that you are the best.

And a lot of people who make sites that list.

The top names in whatever it is, whether it’s restaurants or web design or car mechanics or whatever they’re looking at these lists.

As well, so success kind of perpetuates future success.

So anything you can do to keep that momentum going is important, and we also mentioned blogging some industries.

I have noticed that it seems to be something that fits the pattern of what Google thinks is a high quality site in that category where people are regularly producing content and you can kind of check out your competitors or the competitors that are ranking high in your particular.

Industry and you.

You’ll be able to see if they have, you know any of.

These factors or not?

And that’s another thing too.


When it comes out, go ahead.

Oh OK, OK.

Competitors and we talk about competitors and competitive research and a lot of businesses don’t bother to look at their competitors.

And one thing I always say to people is.

Find a throwaway email address subscribed to your competitors newsletters like go that far.

And then you know exactly what your competitors are doing, and you know when you’re looking at SCO.

Look at your competitors and the research that they’re what terms they’re targeting because you might not even be in the ballpark.

And that’s very true.

And that’s you.

Bring up an interesting thing, because this will happen occasionally too.

You’ll talk to clients and who they?

Think their competitors are when it comes to SEO.

They might be their competitors in sales or some other thing, but it’s totally not who they’re competing against in SEO.

They might not be aware of that, but yeah, definitely doing a research of what?

The top ranking competitors are talking about what they’re doing.

Maybe what they’re doing as far as other forms of marketing, whether it’s social or email, or.

Whatever they’re doing too.

Get customers in the door and build their brand.

Those are all clues because you will start to see patterns.

With top ranking sites in your.

Category, there’s definitely.

Clues that Google picks up on and says people who seem to be satisfied with these sites.

These sites seem to have these characteristics.

And it’s not just things that are on the site, it’s things that are outside of the.

Site, it’s things that they’re doing with other forms of their marketing.

It might be, you know, part of their link profile, it might.

Be part of the content on their site.

It might even be.

The way that they have information organized on specific landing pages.

These are all important things that you need to be looking at to improve your SEO.

Now I would agree.

I would also say one Google looks at like I think it touched upon.

The clear was.

How do you get around this site?

What the navigation is, what people don’t realize is what are the two reasons people go to websites one.

How do I get ahold of you and two to get information and they get it?

Quickly, UM and people don’t want to spend like hours navigating through an endless tunnel.

If they can’t find what they want.

So I think a lot of it depends on how that website is structured, right, John?

Yeah, I mean the structure of the website.

Definitely important, that’s you know.

Especially the larger the site gets or the more competitive the market is, or the more competitive the industry this really becomes.

Quite important.

As far as the the structure of the site.

Well, one of the things I noticed there is.

A recent client that I had.

And they were trying to rank for different terms.

An interesting thing that I noticed is for their main terms, most of the higher ranking sites they seem to have supporting pages.

That also appeared on their site that.

Google must have picked up on this fact that if.

These sites are talking about X and they’re trying to rank for X. They also have content that’s Y&Z.

On this site as well, that’s a characteristic of.

People being able to find what they’re looking for, so those are things to take into consideration as well, but definitely your most important pages.

You would want to have in your main navigation.

The the most important pages for sure up there.

And one of the other things I see being a problem is images and we and we need to go here because image.

It is own problem and you and I both know you take.

Yeah, a smartphone and the average image is what?

6 MB now.

Eight MB now give or take and then somebody takes that image and uploads it to their website and I just cringe every time I see that and said.

And I say to people are you.

Are you in business to show the image or are you actually an art site where it matters and they look at me and say, well it looks beautiful and I say well, it slows down your webpage.

What’s your thought on images?

Yeah, definitely so with images.

You want to.

You can look in Google Analytics and you can see the different browser dimensions of the devices that are coming to your site.

Yeah, you don’t need a 6000 width image. You know. Unfortunately though, I think what a lot of people do is.

They’re either getting stock images or they’re taking images on their phone, or they’re getting artist renditions.

And they’re uploading like these super big images.

They’re not resized.

To fit the browser.

They’re not lazy loaded.

Uhm, they don’t have a web P.

Option, you know there’s lots of things that you can do with images now to make the page load faster.

Speed’s definitely something that Google wants to.

Websites to have.

Uhm, it’s just good for your users.

Nobody is going to wait for an image to load on a page, it just it makes your site look weird.

If the images are loading too slowly, it just looks weird from a user perspective for sure so.

So true, and along along the topic of images, what do you think about the the dreaded slider at the.

Top of the page.

You know?

I prefer it if there’s just one image.

At the top of the page.

Unfortunately, there’s a lot of organizations where you’re not going to be able to talk them out of the slider.

You know it does take longer to load all the extra images and all the JavaScript that it takes to, you know, make the slider work.

Uhm, you know if you can talk people out of it, that’s great because.

This has been a proven thing with numerous studies.

People don’t really go past the third slide and most of them only look at the first slide anyway.

Vast majority of people are only looking at the first slide.

It’s the thing where different departments.

In the organization, want to get their stuff in or?

There’s you know different vendors or strategic partners.

They want to be on the slider.

There’s there’s always like other things going on behind the scenes.

But, and most of the time it’s it’s going to be on the home page, I mean.

A lot of the time you want to make your home page as.

Robust as possible, but without loading it down with unnecessary stuff, because that is going to.

Be the page with the highest authority on your site.

And it will.

Likely rank for a lot of different things.

Keywords that you’re going for.

You know, if you can talk people out of a slider and you could just get them to.

Do one image with one message that’s best, but I understand.

If you have to compromise a little bit, it’s just not my first choice for sure.

Now it’s true, nor my first choice, because I think you know from an organizational standpoint that space could be better used, not even just from an SCO, but even from an information standpoint.

So I know I try to avoid sliders like the plague these days.

It’s so dumb.

I think 10 years ago, in my opinion, like like honestly, so what’s your take?

Also on things like social media profiles on sites and things like that.

Do you have any any take would you should put them in there?

You shouldn’t put them there.

Maybe they should go on the bottom and decide to keep people on the page.

Things like that.

Ah well, I mean, definitely.

I think you want to link up your different social profiles on the site.

Uhm, you know.

Usually I like to put him in the footer.

Maybe you could put him on the contact page as well.

I think we’re past the point of embedding.

Like Facebook page feeds in the footer or sidebar hopefully.

Uhm, I think most of us are.

You know, just for this reason again, it always comes back to this.

It’s like people might follow you on Facebook and they might go off the site maybe, but most people don’t aren’t going to scroll all the way to the footer, so if you put the social icons in the footer, I think that’s fine.

Most people don’t scroll that far anyway.

It’s very rare.

But they’re there.

If people want to find them, but it’s a characteristic of a large brand.

If yeah, large brands are trying to get customers they’re trying to acquire customers in every possible place, and that’s why they’re active on different social media profiles.

They’re on Facebook and Twitter and Instagram, and you know some of them are on.

Tik T.O.K, but they definitely have a LinkedIn company page.

Age and things like that.

That’s a sign of legitimacy.

Big brands go after customers in a whole avenue of places and trying to raise awareness.

So your brand probably should too.

Yeah, it’s it’s so true.

There’s a reason why Coca Cola runs fifty million ads around Christmastime on TV for Coke, right?

I mean, it’s that’s what they’re doing.

They’re saying, OK, you might not have seen us in the first commercial, so we’ll throw you 50 other commercials and say here you go and they just keep.

And we all know the famous.

Coke commercials over the years, even with the disgraced.

Actor Bill Cosby, who used to do many ads for coke over the years and things like that and.


And frankly, that’s one reason why a brand like Coke is so world renowned.

We all know McDonald’s.

Because they fronted 50 million ads over the years.

Then you know.

It’s funny these.

You’re right, right?

He says I don’t want to go to McDonald’s.

I don’t want to go to Walmart, but everybody goes to McDonald’s and Walmart, right?

John so?

You know, yeah, predictable.

Yeah, so true, UM, what’s your other big win for?

Companies are trying to do SCO?

And what would you say beyond what?

We’ve talked about.

Beyond the content beyond making sure that your pages have the the right layout and the right content.

Try and do what you can to pump up.

Your link profile.

There’s a service that I subscribe to.

It’s called help or reporter out, and during the weekday you’ll get different pitches three times a day from different.

Things that are trying to publish content and they want people to, you know, give them a quote.

They’re looking for quotes from experts.

Now you know most of these, you might end up ignoring, but you might see one every so often.

Where you can reply to it and you can get a link back to your site or you can get a mention of your company.

And those help build up your link profile.

You can do other things in your local market to build up your local link profile, such as.

You know you could join a Chamber of Commerce.

I don’t think that that one moves the needle as much locally as it did in the past.

If you went back like five or six years ago, joining a local Chamber of Commerce and having a link from all the different chambers in your area would.

Help your local SEO and I don’t think it does quite as much now.

But still it’s it’s a sign that you’re doing things locally.

Might be better to do a sponsorship of UM.

Like a Little League team or a local soccer team or something like that.

If you see that they have a page on their site where you’re linked as a sponsor, I I don’t encourage people to, you know, put your logo on the back of a T shirt or something like.

That you want to link on a website.

From a local another local site.

It shows that you’re in the area.

Those are all things that can these things do help.

So anything you can do like that?

You know, anytime somebody makes a local pitch like that for some type of sponsorship, look for the link.

That’s what you want to go for.

And just being newsworthy and noteworthy in your area again.

If you could get mentioned in your local Business Journal, I don’t know if they have that in Canada.

They do down here or they have different big city.

OK, so there are different big cities that you can get mentioned in.

You can be on the you know the book of lists or whatever.

If you’re a big enough company, but you can do, you can do things too.

You know, Bill.

Up that link profile.

There’s lots of different ways that you can do it.

There’s so many different sites.

Where you know people are publishing content, they’re looking for input or they’re making.

A list.

Of different you know sites in the area, so look for all of those opportunities.

Because the three legs of the proverb hillcoat.

Table it’s it’s always going to be the content, the links, and the overall design and user experience.

No so true and you know you had funny.

You mentioned, uh, help a reporter out.

That’s a site that I, I think a lot of people they really don’t use it I I’ve used that site for years and and the beauty of it all is if you get a quote, they’ll often give you a link back to your profile.

And that is worse.

Where is the golden sauce?

And and most people don’t realize.

It’s also about building relationships and people.

Get around that one too, and it’s like they don’t.

They don’t understand it so.

It’s hard what and and it’s kind of my last big question that today is a lot of people go and they make changes and then they say OK.

How long is this gonna take affect?

What’s the typical timing for big SEO changes to website these states?

With Google.

Well, I mean, if you’ve if you have all the things, let’s look at different changes.

Let’s say that you’ve got all the content in place on your site and you’ve got a, you know, a pretty.

A reasonable link profile if you make a change as far as like changing the design of the site to improve.

The design just making it look more professional.

Google will re crawl that.

It seems to crawl a little bit slower than it did a couple of years ago, but you can expect to see changes pretty quick.

The higher authority your site is, or the more content that you you put out, it seems to crawl a little bit quicker.

If you make a content change to a page.

It can, you know it might be anywhere from a few days to a few weeks.

If you don’t see.

Anything after that?

Then there’s more stuff that you need to do.

Uhm, usually what I do will go.

I’ll go in search console and I’ll inspect that URL.

That’s been changed and then.

Tell Google that I would like it to be re crawled.

So that’s something that you can do to speed it up, because you know, at least for URLs that are on your site.

That’s that’s one thing you can do to make it go faster, but you know, you’ll usually see the changes once it crawls it within a couple days and all the data centers are updated so.

Yeah, it’s usually not that bad.

What do you think about and this so question I always ask because people there’s a lot of people who hate Google even though we all know in the search engine world.

Google King, they’re the big one.

Yeah, and it’s the privacy issue, so I know people that have gone to.

Third party analytics platforms.

To avoid using Google Search console, what’s your thoughts on that?

Is that a bat is a good move or is it indifferent?

Uhm, it’s in different.

I mean I yeah, and I know people who use fathom analytics or they use different solutions that aren’t Google.

I I know that Adobe offers a solution too.

There’s there’s different ones out there.

Look anything that you use on the web.

If it’s free, they’re probably sharing your data with advertisers, whether it’s social media.

’cause there’s a weird product, yeah?

Or Google or whatever.

Or any site that you go to.

Do that.

That’s a big startup like that or a big tech company.

They’re more than likely sharing your data.

Yeah, like like we said before, Google Analytics is really there for you to analyze.

Google doesn’t need it too.

Make any SEO calculations.

It doesn’t use bounce rate.

Doesn’t use any gameable signals like that.

Time on page.

All things that you can gain.

By hiring somebody off 5 or getting all your buddies to do it or hiring people on Amazon Mechanical Turk.

You know those are all gameable signals and they they don’t use that data.

They have better ways to do it.

So install Google Analytics if or fathom analytics or any other analytics solution that you want if you’d like insight.

Into how real users behave on your site, but it’s not necessary for ranking.

It’s just there for you to gain insight.


Yeah, and I would say if you don’t know insight, that means you don’t know your numbers and if you don’t write numbers, how can you improve what you’re doing?

You can only improve what you’re doing and optimize by actually knowing what your numbers are.

So I.

Well, yeah, I.

Think there’s a lot of truth to that, yeah?

I mean, there’s a lot of people who I deal with and they you say you know what your numbers are.

How many people visited your site?

I know how people use.

Your checkout page I don’t know and you’re like.

How do you optimize without knowing that’s a problem?

Well, that’s that’s the thing with Google Analytics is you can actually look at the paths that people take to get you know they take from a specific landing page that they come in on and you can see the path that they take and you look at that enough and you can kind of get an idea of of how people are using the site.

Or what people are looking to do on specific pages.

And that’s 11 big thing that I want to stress when it comes to SEO is it’s about looking at the individual pages a lot more than than people realize.

You know, there’s there’s definitely content for the top of the funnel, middle of funnel and bottle bottom of the funnel.

But each of those things plays a different role and how people?

Interact with that content and what they’re trying to do, what they’re trying to accomplish is totally different for each and every one of those purposes.

And not every single person at the top of.

The funnel is.

You’re going to end up being a customer and, but that’s OK too, because you’re going to get enough people in that funnel sometimes that you’re going to get some solid leads out of it, so that’s just part of the game.

So true, John, thanks for the amazing conversation today.

If somebody wants to get a hold, you talk SEO or any of the above has the best way.

Well my website is https://www.lockedownseo.com/ .

Also, you know ask a question on my YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/c/lockedownseo

The company Twitter https://twitter.com/LockedownSEO

My Twitter:


Thank you very much John.

Have a wonderful day.

Thank you.

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