Episode 453 Copywriting With Todd Jones – My Copywriting Process Part 2

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Show Summary

Rob Cairns and Todd Jones talk about the 2nd part of his copywriting process.

Show Highlights: 1. Parts 3 and 4 of the process. 2. How the process makes your copywriting better. 3. Books to help you.

• Part 3 and 4 of the process.
• How does the process make your copywriting better?
• Books to help you.

Show Notes

Rob:

Hey, everybody, Rob Cairns here. And today I’m here with my good friend Mr. Todd Jones, and we’re talking about his copywriting process. Part 2 today, how are you today, Todd?

Todd:

It’s a Monday. I’m I’m doing OK. I’m. I’m hanging in there.

Rob:

Yeah, me too. And that’s about the word. When we did our show a couple weeks ago, we talked about your four parts, your copywriting process. Do you wanna recap those lists?

Todd:

Yeah, sure. So.

Rob:

There’s four part.

Todd:

To it research strategy, execution and distribution. With the research I tend to refer to internal and external research. You’re, you know, learning more about the company, the business and and all the different things that the brand, their brand. Messaging those kinds of things and then externally competitive research type of information not to copy but to different. The 8 and then the next one is about strategy and. Man 2 weeks ago I slept. Since then I can’t remember exactly what I said, but definitely this is where you begin to start to strategize like what you’re going to talk about. For what kind of copy piece that you’re doing, whether it’s website copy or or, you know, even a blog post really. Like, what’s the strategy that you’re going to utilize? And some of that. We’ll get into execution, but you know, just kind of like putting it together and determining like what kind of. What kind of maybe copywriting formula you’re gonna use for the copywriting piece that you’re writing? Assuming that that’s you’re writing web copy. If you’re using a blog, you know, like, you know what kind of strategy you’re employing for the blog post. That kind of thing. #3 is of course the execution and this is where really the rubber meets the road. Like you’ve come up with the research and you’ve done the strategy and within that strategy section, you’re also probably going to outline. So if you’re out like writing an article, you’re probably outlining it. I was reading something today actually.

Out. I think James Patterson, but one of the great novelists and and one of the books like the first book he wrote, he had like A50 page outline for his book and he never started till he wrote an outline if we could all be so good. Sometimes I don’t do that very well. I’ll start with a a general idea of an outline and I’ll start going writing pieces. Where the. Go. Sometimes it’s just very. It’s like a very, very much like a living Organism sometimes but. An outline is really like a framework, right? It’s like this is the path we’re going to follow kind of deal. So when you get into that execution phase, you’re following that outline that you put together in the second strategy and you’re really just making your your, you’re actually putting the rubber, you know, the rubber meets the road. Kind of deal. And so you want to create that content and one of the reasons is like in the website copy framework I gave you a A framework for the home page, the about page and the service page and so which really like I tell, I’ve told people before the website copy framework, which is where this. Process comes from. It you really you really do want in Phases 1 and 2 with website company framework, that’s really what it’s for. And to be fair. That’s where most people. Struggle when it comes to like writing about their website or writing about. I was like, what if I say it’s really like, what do I say and that’s where the website copy framework comes from. It helps you with the the 1st 2 when you get to three, you’re actually executing your strategy. That means writing. Now I don’t want to go into some long blog posts about. Thing, because that’s not what we’re here for. But you learn very quickly when you do a lot of writing, that writing in itself is its own skill, right? One book I recommend to everybody in business that’s writing anything is everybody writes by Ann Handley. She is a. Expert and digital marketing and copy content writing because she does a lot of that. But also if you follow somebody like Kaylee Moore online, she she has some very good resources as well about just about writing in general. I actually have a this little ebook that I’ve created a long time ago with like 10. Resources but. The first one I include is the one Dianne and the thing that Ann does so well is that some of the little writing techniques that we employ, she actually brings those out very well in that book, it’s all about writing for online. Certainly there’s going to be writing offline. Obviously, we write things offline, but in this day and. Page we’re writing mostly like things online, so like website copy, A blog posts and e-mail those kinds of things.

Rob:

No question. Even my brother who’s? A journalist. Not a journal? Yeah. You know.

Todd:

Yeah, he’s a he’s an entertainment journalist. I know. Yeah, I I’m not. I’m a little jealous of him, to be honest with you.

You have. And he’s writing more for online publications than he ever wrote for online. Back when he started, he was written. No, he still does some print, but not as much. A lot of it’s online stuff.

Todd:

Right, sure. Another another resource, I would recommend your to your listeners in this execution stage because editing is a big part of it. But her book is way more than editing. It’s the book by Maddie. Osman, which I know you’ve had her on the show, that book. She also does some tips on like how to write and how to format and how to structure and so I think if you had her book and Anna’s book on your desk, you would be a better writer quickly. But there are other good writers out there. You know, there’s a Stephen King book. But I’ve never bought a red, but I understand it’s a really good book. There are certain things you want to do with your writing. Like you know you want to, not just tell, but you want to show, you know you want to employ visual imagery. With your writing and you know Anne and Maddie and even some of Kaylee stuff, you’ll you’ll learn how to do that. They’re they’re all excellent. I’m. You know, there there’s a lot of books and resources out there about how to write better thing about you. What you really need to do in the business field. And it kind of depends on your business, but I would imagine most people listening to this are not super large corporate. So formal academic sounding writing is best left in the classroom unless you’re a corporate business, you’re you know, you’ve got, you know, this huge conglomerate top of the deal. But if you’re what most small medium businesses, you should keep the formality out of.

Rob:

Yes.

Todd:

The writing and create more what I call it’s casual professional.

Rob:

There’s no question there, Todd. I know a couple of people have written academic thesis over the. And when I listen to them talk, it drives me up the wall. It’s like, can’t we have a discussion around your feast without being so formal and so academic and academics almost come. I hate that.

Todd:

Yeah. Well, and that and that’s the that is the context of academia, you know, I know some people like that too, and they’re not going to talk about, you know, when we put on our academic hats and whatever field it is we we tend to, we tend to talk more deep and we tend to talk. Or academic and it it’s just kind of like it’s like a world. But I once heard a story and and and and not really story, but it’s they called it the bar bar test is it was a it was a how to reach out to people on LinkedIn but the bar test and what he said was and I can’t remember the guys name I wish I could I hate to not give the guy credit but it’s very good. To what he said was pretend, and this is great with your writing too, especially for web copy or blog posts or social media. What? Better emails pretend you’re sitting next to the CEO or whoever your business guy is at the bar and you’re talking to him is very good advice. So we we we don’t want to lose our professionalism not that’s why I call it casual professional. You don’t want to lose your professionalism. You may talk about. Professional terms like in your industry. Tree if it is something that your target audience understands, you’re in good place. But if you’re using lingo that only you know in your industry, but your target audience doesn’t understand it.

Rob:

They don’t.

Todd:

You’re probably losing them, so you know. Explain it to me like I’m a. 5th grader, you know?

Rob:

No, I agree. And it doesn’t make for good conversation like and and and it’s one one of the problems with academics more than tech people cause I’ve lived in that tech space all my. Life. And it’s the same problem. You have to dumb down your language depending on who you’re talking to. Academics don’t seem to wanna dumb down their language. They’re like, what’s wrong with you? And it’s like nothing. I just.

Todd:

Have I have? Mixed emotions about that. So when I was in college, I went to a small Baptist private school for college and and I cherished my education and my professor. One of my professors. He taught religion and philosophy and had a philosophy. And let me tell you, I struggled with philosophy. But I think it made me a better thinker. Now, I couldn’t tell you. Who, who, what? What? Philosopher had what argument? I don’t. I don’t remember those things. But I do remember the mechanics of arguing, you know, debate and and thinking rationally and following things. There’s logical conclusion, those kinds of things stuck with me. Not necessarily who said what and what the argument was and. All that kind of stuff. But he did a presentation at Chapel. He had Chapel back to school, right? And he told he was he. Was he? He made a case for how? Why we should think deeper and. Higher so.

Rob:

I’m not saying couldn’t. It’s how we communicate it. There’s there’s.

Todd:

Sure, absolutely. It’s all these contexts, right? But I will say this, maybe we should hang out with some academians a little bit in certain fields just so that we will think a little bit deeper because if we are always thinking on the 5th grade level, even as professionals, you know it doesn’t challenge our thinking too much, but. Like I said, it’s mixed emotions from when it comes to communicating on your website. Your blog posts. You don’t want to be too. Too immature with your content too much like a fifth grader, you probably want to be more like 10th or 11th grade, I would say. But you don’t want to be academic because there are but but at the same time, Rob, especially when I’m writing articles, I find myself on what is it to Harvard? This review website looking at stuff and gleaning information from that and. And then you know, some of the people over the years that I have followed and especially in storytelling are are in the academic world, but they’re also in the business professional world. So I think there’s a place for that. I know I don’t know where that line is, to be honest with. You, but I think it’s always best. Two defaults were being as as plain and clear as you can. But but having. You know deep insights, if that makes sense, so.

Rob:

My answer me. When you’re communicating it, whether you’re so my issue is learning from academics, I think learning is a big part of what we do in this field, you and I. Have talked about. This I’m a.

Todd:

Hmm.

Rob:

Life learner with a. A massive amount of. Accreditations after my name not to boast, but that’s just how I learn. I take courses, I learn. I’m always reading. You know me, I’ve always got a podcast on the go. That’s not the issue to spur the creative thinking and spur looking deeper. The problem is it’s how you communicate that, yeah, I think where academics have that problem is they don’t always communicate to their audience. They communicate to themselves, which is what the we have to go there.

 

Todd:

Yeah, I agree. Yeah. But but I’m going to assume that the people listening to this are not academians per se. They’re they’re business owners now. They may have academic experience. Some of them may teach.

Rob:

Because.

Todd:

An academic institution, but they’re business owners. One of the ways you can cut through people not understanding.

Rob:

Well, great.

Todd:

One of the ways you can cut through people not understanding what you’re talking about is by using stories and analogies, and that is a proven fact. That’s not it’s not something we come up with, something that’s just out of the thin blue air. If you go read stories that stick by Kendra Hall or the perfect story by Aaron Eber.

Rob:

Yep, I got it.

Todd:

They both say the same thing, and they’ve done studies. It’s it is a way to help bridge the gap. Out between the rational side of the brain and the more abstract side of your brain. So if you are struggling and and really I’m not, I’m not trying to get religious here, but if you go back to reading the Bible, what did Jesus. Do, he told? Stories they were, they’re called him parables, right? He was trying to make a point and so. In and even in life, wherever you watch a movie, they use stories. So sorry.

Rob:

When you think about it, but it’s OK, the Bible is really a collection of short stories. When you think about it.

Todd:

Absolutely. Yeah.

Rob:

Nobody ever ever breaks. That way, but you know the Bible and and. That would include.

Todd:

Actually, I go one further pretty much every every religion. Not that I’ve read every religious text by any stretch of imagination, but every religious text that is considered scripture by their own religious group is usually a collection of stories almost.

Rob:

Yes.

Todd:

All of them. So and again, like I said, I haven’t read them all. But you know, that’s pretty much what they are. They it’s the storytelling. So that tells you, I mean I don’t wanna get it. Obviously we can go down to the storytelling rabbit hole as well. But my my point is that you’re an execution stage here and you gotta use all the. Tools at your. Disposal and some of the things we talked about here. Is is it helps you communicate what you’re doing a lot better and up until just a few weeks ago, that was the end of my process and I added another one, which we’re going to talk about and this distribute or distribution.

Rob:

And I agree. And let me jump in before you get going. It’s you can do 1-2 and three, but if you don’t distribute content 1-2 and three really don’t matter.

Speaker 3

Well, you know, it’s like, are they gonna hear what you’re saying now? And I think in 2024 it’s a little bit harder than it used to be to do, but.

Todd:

Ohh no.

Rob:

Yeah, that there there’s a lot of reasons behind that, but but we’ll we’ll reference Ross Simmons again. Our buddy, he’s Canadian. He has a book out. I’m, I’m sure you’ve read it or bought it. Forget the name, pull it off your. Shelf. What is the? Name of it distribution or something like that. Constant distribution, huh?

Todd:

It’s in, it’s in the. Closet right now.

Rob:

Yeah. Anyway, I can’t remember the title of it much. Apologies, Ross, if you’re listening to this, but.

Todd:

Invite me if you want. If you want good info from Ross, and I know I told him in the last episode. Go follow his podcast. He this man you need to follow Ross on next. You need to follow him on other podcasts. You need to go listen to what this man says because every post, every podcast he puts out there.

Todd:

Oh yeah. Well, everyone, yeah. And and Ross is an interesting fellow in a lot of ways. He’s a big, huge Philadelphia Eagles fans and I figured him for that. And but I’m a I’m a.

Todd:

Yeah, I know. And he also, if I remember right, when he was a kid, said he wanted to grow up to be a WWE wrestler superstar. So Ross is, you know, there’s a lot of overlap there with me and him. But Ross, he’s the one that has really pushed the distribution mantle for a long time. And his book kind of gives you the basic overview of what it means to distribute what you now here’s the deal we talked about when we talk about distributing things, we usually talk about it in terms of your blog posts like, right, you write the blog posts and you just. That we use the words, remix and redistribute, and those kinds of things because what you’re doing is repurposing your content for other formats, and he’s one of the best I’ve ever seen about, you know, instructing you to do that. You got a blog post. You can chop it up videos. I’ll tell you somebody else. I’ve already mentioned Chris Van Vleet, who does the the the the videos are the the the interviews with many me that it’s not always just WWE Superstars. He’s done a lot of WWE superstars. He’s also done some from other promotions including. Joe Hendry. Say his name. Joe Hendry. Anyway, I’m sorry. I get really keyed up about Joe Hendry. He’s he’s awesome. But anyway. But but his, whoever his producer is, is a fantastic job of slicing up bits of the video that he that he shares on a LinkedIn. I mean, on LinkedIn, I’m sorry. Instagram Envy does on Facebook. There’s you get these little sections of the interview and like, if you want to go back and listen to the whole interview, you can. And his interviews. Are not short. They’re I. I remember listening to a whole bunch of them one night. I won’t tell you what was going on that night, that I was trying to avoid, but something was going on that night. I was trying to avoid that the rest of the world was paying attention to, and I went in there to his face, his YouTube page. And I’m like, OK, I want to listen to some of Chris’s videos and but they do a great job of, like, not just slicing it up for social media. But also actually on the YouTube channel. So I remember listening to Chelsea Green.

Rob:

Mean.

Todd:

That interview which? Another Canadian, right? So but they have like titles and they’re like, OK, you can skip to the section you want to listen to and all of his videos are like that. And so that’s how. I listen to. Like four of his podcasts, 4 hours for the podcast, and one night because I was skipping to the part I wanted to listen to. So, but he does a good job of slicing his videos up, which you get on Instagram and Facebook so you know they they get. David Garfield I was on his podcast A while back and his producer, Nathan Fraser does a good job with that as well. So they’ll slice that up and drop it on LinkedIn on Facebook, and you can watch that and go back and watch the whole thing. That’s just video and podcast. Uh, certainly you can slice them up and make them for a TikTok video. You can turn them into an Instagram video, you turn them into Facebook reels, Instagram reels. I mean, this stuff’s all beyond me, but when you write A blog post, maybe you got a 12/15 hundred word. Blog posts and you got a lot of good information there. There you can absolutely slice that up. One of the things I have done too, which is something that is LinkedIn, allow you do you can create a PDF actually slides, save it as a PDF and upload it to LinkedIn and it becomes a slider. Their carousel deal, which is kind of cool so. I have some content I could probably in fact this process I could probably do that.

Rob:

Taking up PDF’s on LinkedIn, did you recall that LinkedIn owns a site called SlideShare which allows you to do exactly what which I’ve.

Todd:

Yep, yeah, yeah.

Rob:

30 years for doing citations. We’re all. Yeah, I’ll import the PDF, the SlideShare, and then just embed that code on my website. So there’s.

Yeah, you can. That’s a great way to share a slide, although I don’t do that very much anymore. But I have done in. The. Past, but if you if you take a presentation, if you just create a simple presentation and you have like four or five six points, really not hard to do with Canva.

Rob:

Best Word document. Too, by the way.

Todd:

Anymore you can use their docs to presentation feature, create it, edit it. Download as a PDF and upload it that way to LinkedIn. It automatically becomes a carousel. It’s fantastic and so that’s what that’s another way. There’s a lot of different ways your Twitter Twitter threads right has become a thing, right? So. What I said, the one reason I said that it’s harder in 2024 than it was, maybe even just 3-4 even a year or two, two years ago, is the algorithms have massively changed. I call the algo gods.

Rob:

There’s no, there’s no question. I mean, it used to be if you put out a post. Ten years ago, or 15 years ago. And you were doing anything respectable, you’d rank and you’d get on point and check one of the most successful posts I ever.

Todd:

Yep.

Rob:

Put out was undercover was under. I found a business camp and the long and the short of it is I put out a post how this company was scamming business owners. Well I my post hit so many hits that the company I attacked and by the way, when I was done both the FBI and the RCMP were involved. So I should tell you that’s how far. It. Went and Toronto police says fraud squad was involved because I have contacts there so I had the whole world involved. And they got so mad that they signed me up for all these business directory services that automatically sent me emails trying to picture services on that click. It got to the point I was getting 500 messages an hour in my inbox.

Todd:

Oh boy, yeah.

Rob:

Because that. The point I’m making is that’s how concerned they were with this blog post that hit social media with my phone. Now, to do that today, they probably wouldn’t have the same concern because that was some totally different.

Todd:

What social media were you post? Were you? Posting that on.

Rob:

Next, next week.

Todd:

Yeah. Yeah. So the anything that operates on an algorithm which is pretty much your social media platforms and Google is, is stymied by the the algorithm. So I’ll I’ll do a little back and I’m I do not consider myself an SEO specialist by any means. I just try to follow people I like and I’ll learn from. And there are a few of those. I’m a I’m a fan and follow Ann Smarty. I’ve known her since 2016. I follow the DJ. UM. Right now I’m losing. I’ll think of her name after the shows goes off. But blind headed, lady, she’s a DJ by night and the SEO hero during the day. And then? Then obviously I followed the Spark Toro team, which is not really an SEO company, but they have a software and they’re kind of in it. So the first time I heard anything. Relayed to zero click, and this goes back to our distribution of social media is when Amanda, not not to not to feed, not top of a deed. Can never say her name. I and so she forgives me as well. But she did this Twitter thread called 0. Click content and eventually did an article. Actually, as far as I know, I would have to clear this with her. I’d have to like double check. I think she did. The thread first. And then she did. It was really an example of zero click content. She talked about zero click content and this is what. And now they talk about. Zero click search. That’s a new term that’s come up in the last couple of years. That’s because the search engines, at least Google. Is have been experimenting with. Depending on the the the the actual search query doing AI generated content. So you could say how do I get me a WS forms cat? Put that in the Google. Yeah, you’re wearing it, and then an AI would generate the answer. This is how you get a WS forms cap. You go to the website.

Rob:

And by and by the way, and by the way, Mr. Westgard, if you’re watching or listening, you now owe Mr. Jones speech as well as me, but that’s another.

Todd:

Anyway, but that but that’s example, a lot of it has to do with the query, because some queries I’ll put in there and there won’t be no AI generated thing. But most experts think that that’s probably where we’re headed, like completely at some point, which is kind of frustrating, but it’s it’s causing an upheaval in the SEO.

Rob:

Good.

Todd:

So anything that is that is ran with algorithms, so that can be the search engines and I’ll I’ll say that as a general because obviously we look at Google as the search engine. But they’re still being in DuckDuckGo and several others out there as well. Search engines that are based on algorithms, your social media platforms, all of them, Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter or ex, or whatever it’s called now. I don’t really. That’s about the the Facebook. Those are the ones I pretty much use. I don’t use some of the other ones. But.

Rob:

But.

Todd:

They’re all based on algorithms, which puts what LinkedIn or whoever wants toward the top to have more visibility. Here’s a good example. Last week I took some courses and the committee building, and so I earned 2 certificates. Well, once I upload it, I did not make the post.

Rob

So.

Todd:

They made the post I just public. I just hit post you know. I added my certification because I can which is kind of cool like well have these certifications to my LinkedIn profile LinkedIn created. It’s basically, you know, I don’t have AI generated whatever but you know and and the wording is their word. I’m thrilled to announce. That blah blah blah. Anyway, I I just went with it, so why not, you know, hit that. You know, let people know. Well, I got more more reactions from those two posts than anything else I put on LinkedIn, and I thought about it, Rob, and that that was because this post came from LinkedIn. They wanted me to put. That post up because I. Made that certification and they that means they gave it way more visibility than anything else. So this is what we’re fighting with with the the algorithms I called all gods distribution is still a thing, but you have to play, you have to play it. Differently, you cannot. You know, we used to just.

Rob

Have a have.

Todd:

One social media post and just plan it on every platform and it’s the same thing. Word it the same way. You can’t do that anymore. If you want to get any kind of traction, you got actually got us and play some copyrighting chops.

Rob:

And not the not only have to put some proper. Raging chops. You need to pay to.

Todd:

Play and and well, that would be the next thing you you know, in order to get even more visibility is to to use their boosting programs and all of them have one. In fact in with Twitter, they have the the what is it, 10 bucks a month or whatever to.

Rob:

And if you.

Todd:

Get. The little but that that gives you you can write. Longer posts and you can get more visibility. So my friend Christy Hines, who does AW. A lot of. Talk about AI and SEO and her Twitter and her ex feed. She can write longer posts and she can do stuff I cannot do because she’s paying for that check mark, if you will. So.

Rob:

And by the way, if you want to learn a little bit more about pay to play, I suggest you go back to a couple episodes in this podcast and Ryan Waterbury and I in our monthly segment last month talked about the difference between PPC pay per click and SEO. And if you listen that episode, we go. Who think they both have a place, but sometimes the fastest round of ROI is the PC pay to play.

Todd:

So you just mentioned like one corner of the whole distribution model because there is a public relations that could be employed, some of that cost sometimes it doesn’t. If you can get interviewed by a industry like if you’re like, you’re a business. And you know, get featured in an industry publication that that will help boost that. Get your message out a little bit more or why guest posting guest article writing still has a place just as long as you’re not trying to spam it. So say you’re.

Rob:

What’s?

Todd:

A business owner and you have your industry has a trade type website with a blog post and they say, hey, Rob, do you want to write something to, you know, for that could be a place to help? Further distribute your message and get some back links and back links still matter, so there’s there’s a lot of different things you can do in in your e-mail newsletter. We don’t want to forget the e-mail newsletter because that’s a huge.

Rob:

And one more year.

Todd:

Part of the distribution as well.

Rob:

And one more and you know you haven’t hit on it and it’s not really writing per se, but we’re doing it right now is show up on a podcast and talk about the article that. You’ve written.

Todd:

That’s the distribution angle for sure. I mean, you know the, the, the, the idea is that you’re on a podcast that has visibility and people start to check you out. They go find you, they read your stuff on social media, they eventually go to your website. You know, so yeah, it’s all part of distribution. It is not the fast game that maybe it was 10 years ago.

Rob:

Throughout the.

Todd:

If you need it to be faster, you probably should pay some money for PPC and and the you know that kind of thing which you know so you you’ve gotta be willing one way or the other, either to fork out money if you.

Rob:

He reports.

Todd:

Have it to boost visibility of your posts on social media, or you’ve got to be able to to be willing to do some podcast interviews, get interviewed by a a media publication, or even a even traditional media man. I mean, go on a radio. Show or go on TV, you know, get on TV depending on, you know. But but there’s so many different ways. Live streaming shows, man, that’s. That’s that is kind of where podcasting and TV has come together is is in live streaming and.

Rob:

And do yourself a favor on your website, create a media page, share all those media experiences. You know I’ve done that. And so when people say to me, can you tell me what you like on our podcast? I’ll just send them a media page and say here so bye bye.

Todd:

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And so yeah, there’s there’s a distribution is. You know there is long and they’re short and that you need in, you know, the short. You’re it really involves money or you know there it’s not like you could do some other things, right you can get. You know, if you are able to get on like the like, let’s say you’re on the Pat Flynn show, OK, that guy has lots of people listening. He’s got a humongous audience. You would get a boost really quick. Being on a show like that, I hold out for the day that Chris Van Vleet has me on his podcast. Even though I’m not a. Hustler, but how fun would that be? And I would be like it would give me a lot of visibility real quick so.

Rob:

OK or.

Todd:

That’s one of the reasons I cherish so much being on David Garfinkel show because he’s one of the top. He is the top copywriting coach in the world and he had me on his podcast. So I mean, you know, it’s.

Rob:

So everybody kind of wrap up. Do you want to kind of mentioned the four things that you in summary that real quickly that you include in your process? Again please?

Todd:

Yeah. So, like I told you, I think in the last episode, I will give you a A this this diagram that I created on Canva which can be put in the show notes.

Rob:

Check out. Notes for both episodes, you’ll be in both of them.

Todd:

Right. Yeah. The first one is research. So you want to research internally and externally for before this project and this thing would probably work with almost any kind. Of any kind of project you’re doing, but this is my copywriting process. The second one is strategy. Create the strategy that you’re using that may include outlining the the post of the article, or the the web copy, and maybe choosing the copywriting formula. You may be choosing to use for your. Web page, that kind of thing. And #3 is execution. You’re going to create. You’re actually going to create the content and if. You’re. Writing, you know you want to pay attention to good writing tactics. Things like you can learn from Anne Handley’s book everybody writes, or Maddie’s book, those kinds of things.

Rob:

That man.

And.

Todd:

Yeah, Maddie’s book and then now 4 is a distribution and that’s when you learn how to distribute your your message. I let’s just think in terms of message, you’re copywriting your message to the piece that you’re writing, whatever. Where are you going to distribute that? You know, it’s probably going to start on your website and you going to distribute it other.

Rob:

Buy it, buy.

Todd:

He says. And if you want to dive into that more, you might choose to get Ross Simmons’s book. I think it’s called content that distribute content to distribute or something like that. Very good book as well, to to consider doing. And he talks about how repurpose and remix your content for various formats, because that’s what you’re doing, really.

Rob:

Yep. And Todd, if somebody wants to talk to you about poppy, besides your website, poppyflight.com, how’s the best way?

Todd:

And you’ll pay me on Twitter link or Facebook. I’m TE Jones on Twitter, the original TE Jones, and some form of. Yeah, well, there’s a story about that. I I I I was able to get TE Jones very early like 2008 or whatever. And then one year I got tagged. I mean, it was early on. I was probably a few years later I got tagged on something on Twitter like what the heck is this? This is back when people were doing. These regular cross posts. Simultaneously with Instagram, the guy was tagging his buddy who was TE Jones on Instagram, but now on Twitter and I was like, why are you tagging me? He was all he didn’t think much of it was like, well, that’s my buddies. I was like, yeah, but on Twitter, I’m TE Jones anyways, kind of. But I was. And so I’m the. Original T Jones on Twitter or X, as they call it the. These days and and I think Toddy Jones, some former Toddy Jones on Instagram, LinkedIn or Facebook don’t come to me on Instagram about copywriting. I’m just looking at cat videos and wrestling videos there. So ping me on LinkedIn, Twitter or Facebook. I’ll be. Happy to talk to you.

Rob:

Thanks, dad. Have yourself an amazing day, my friend.

Todd:

Alright, thank you. Have a good one.