Episode 463: Follow Your Passion With Jeff Brown

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Show Summary

Rob Cairns talks to Jeff Brown about why he followed his passion.

Show Highlights:

• When is it time to follow your passion?
• What to consider when following your passion.
• How to make the right decision for you.

Show Notes

Hey everybody, Rob here and then today I’m my good friend, Mr. Jeff Brown with me, and we are gonna talk about some stuff that’s probably going to blow your mind away. And I’ll save that. How are you, Jeff?

I am doing really well, Rob, just it’s a great day here and as always, I’m supposed to be on a bit of a vacation. But I’m still learning how to do vocation mode. So to speak.

Vacation mode. What is that? You mean my two days in the sandbanks last week to do sweet nothing. Why on the beach chair? Now that’s a vacation.

Well, the I find that if I don’t go somewhere I I’m tempted to just let little things creep back into and I know that’s a bad habit. My boss at work is trying to literally say stop it.

Yeah. And you just hit them?

But I’m learning.

You hit the magic word, boss. Work. I thought you were self-employed. Now I do know what’s going on. So we’ll we’ll kind of talk about those for those who don’t know, just been on the show multiple times and he was. And they used the word was a workplace education trainer. So what has happened in your life since you’ve been with? Us last time.

Well, I’ve now transitioned and I’ve taken on a new role, so. Let’s let’s step back just a little bit in 19. Sorry. What was it now? 2006 was the last year that I was working for the man. In other words, I was employed. And I said, I’m going to have my own business. I’m never going back to being an employee. And I said that and we’ve had a great business. We’ve had rob you and I have had. We’ve known each other for years. We’ve had some wonderful conversations. We’ve done amazing. Things and now. I’m having to say that I’m now an employee and I’m an assistant pastor at a fast growing church, and everything that I’ve taught people to do over the years, I now find resting on my plate from I’m doing the website. I’m doing the social media, I’m doing administrative stuff. I’m I’m doing things that are trying to free up the lead pastor so he can be a little bit more mindful on the people and the other things that he has.

Yeah.

To do.

Yep.

And so. I’m learning to be an employee again and to be a really good one and to really make a difference.

Now it. Now it’s really interesting because and by the way, you’re also doing it for a call right? Just a little bit of a counting. My most unfavorite task is on the face of the earth, right? So.

Yes.

I hate doing my own books. This is why I don’t do them less than the listeners. You don’t like doing it? Find somebody to. Do it for. For you. So I’m already in that mode as, as you know, and I think in some sense, the lead pastors done that, he doesn’t have time to do it or doesn’t like doing stuff. So guess who gets to do that stuff?

It is war.

That is you but, but more importantly and why I wanted to talk about this is you and I have been talking about this for a long, long time. And when you broke the news to me on a on a phone call, I kind of was not shocked. I will tell you that I’ve said that to you. And I think it’s. Driving. Life with passion and a purpose to some degree and. And you’re passionate about the church, and I think you got to the point in what you were doing is you’re passionate about teaching people. But I don’t think the mechanics were working well.

No, it it’s almost as if I’ll use the word grace or the ease of which I was able to do. It seemed to lift off the workplace education. Now I still loved it. It seemed to get harder. And. It’s not that I didn’t love the people, it’s just that it the fit wasn’t there anymore.

Yep.

And now I’m transitioning. I’m still previously I help people in business now just helping people in the community, and I find that that’s it’s it was a great move and it was time as a matter of fact you and our conversations it might have been slightly delayed a bit.

And it’s true. But and and I was at that point, to be frank, when I came out of healthcare 14 years ago, I loved the people I loved, the nurses I loved, the doctors I loved helping people. But those who know health care in Canada. No, it’s very political, top heavy and it’s very mind boggling top heavy. And when you’re running $1,000,000 projects and having to steal from Peter to pay Paul every day, it’s really complicated and it got to the point when I. When I left and I didn’t leave in my case on my own doing, I was ready to go. And I think to some degree. You were. You were ready and it was time.

Yes, and it it really was time and and the what was really need is I left well, I left at the top of my game and even the at the head of workplace education said that basically I’m welcome back any time. So we didn’t leave on a bad note. But we we left possibly leaving a slight open door. But what I’m finding now is now that I’ve made the transition, I’m now busier more than ever before. Doing things that I really have purpose and meaning, and I know is going to matter and that’s always what I’ve always wanted to do, regardless whether it’s workplace education or working in a church. I just want it to matter and help people.

Yeah, I agree with it all. You gotta do now is find somebody to take on doing those books every month so you don’t have to. Do them now.

Well, one day we’re going to replace me and we and that’s one thing you should always be looking. To equip someone else to replace you therefore cause if if you are not. If someone can’t do your work, you’re not replaceable. So you’re stuck in your position, so you always have to be raising up leaders to do what you do.

Yeah, there’s no, there’s no question and. Like I hear it in you pretty well, we talk pretty frequently that I think you’re happier these days. I think you were going through a period where you weren’t as happy with what you were doing. I could hear it almost then.

The IT was becoming stressful and it was. Just it wasn’t that the people were bad. They were wonderful. It wasn’t that the coordinators were bad. They were wonderful. It’s just that everything has an expiry label on it and I reached that and I just knew inside my gut that it was time and probably I might have stayed a little too long, but. I fulfilled all my contracts and made sure that everybody’s even empowering the team that I work with to be able to be functional in the fall without me and so not only leaving right, but helping others step into that role. So I’d like to think I left some pretty big shoes to fill.

Yeah, I I I cannot appreciate that. I had a role many, many years ago where I was involved in amateur lacrosse in Ontario big time. I was involved in A at a provincial committee level. I was involved at a house revocal level. I actually ran the house regularly in the town. I’m. Back in right now, my hometown, Markham ON. Which is the home of Andre de Grasse. And for those who are Olympic fans, know better know who he is. But absolutely. That’s another story. And when I left, I had made a decision. Probably 3 months before I left that I was going and I had made a decision that I wasn’t going to finish the year. And part of it was at the time running the House League was putting more stress on me. Then running my own business and that says something and but I didn’t want to leave it in a mess. So I decided to get early on. I would get the year started. I’d get us through the started year. I would leave things in an organized way, both at the provincial level and at the local level. So I didn’t have to deal with a million and one phone calls. I didn’t have to deal with stuff because I wanted. To do at that time a clean break and I actually left stuff in a manageable way. So all somebody I’d do is pick it up and go with it. And I left it all in place. And I think that’s really important when you’re transitioning out to.

Something. Yeah, because it sounds like with your example my example. We were probably heading in the direction of burnout where literally we’re working so hard and it just things that were float so seamlessly and easy weren’t anymore and it the joy was out of it. And it was time to move on and to move on well. And that’s something that is really important.

I was already there, to be honest with you. My volunteer work at that time was taking me about 50 hours a week and then tossing 40 hours a work week. That’s 90 and do the math. Where do you? Where do you have time to do anything else? Right. So. And. And by the way, and sleep for 8 hours a night.

Yeah.

Too so. There’s 8 * 7 Gone there too, so that doesn’t leave or much else in between.

Yeah. Now, since you find yourself as, you’re starting to make the decision to make the decision to leave, did you find yourself having a little bit more difficulty and sleeping and just kind of struggling with it?

Not really in in my case the last straw was we had a parent walk in and say I’m telling you what to do because I pay 240 bucks for my kid to play and that gives me the saying what the executive does. And I said to parent very undiplomatically, can you tell me the last annual general meeting you attended or do I need to pull up those records for you? I knew what the answer was. Zero. Yeah. And. And you know, it said the whole unfortunately right now in the world and this was. This was years ago, so this was 12 years. To go, people are dealing more with self entitlement than ever before, and that’s part of the problem. You can’t. Everybody thinks because they did this, they deserve that well, life doesn’t work that way.

No, it doesn’t. But unfortunately people think it does. And in their world they pursue what they believe are their rules of which they play by. But in many cases, like that one, for example, that is encroaching very closely to almost a bullying mindset where, hey, this is my way of the highway. And you’re gonna tell the. Hope.

And and this one, it was interesting the issue that caused the discussion with the parent. Was his 14 year old made a racial slur on the floor and he didn’t see anything wrong with it? And that and and I hate to tell you, it was definitely color issues, child that made the racial slur was right. Kid that made received the racial serve was black. And at the time, the head referee for our association was on the floor. And I was standing in the penalty box and we both heard it as clear as day.

Yeah, that player should have pulled right at that moment, because there’s there’s times in the game to get into people’s heads, cause that’s just part of sports. But doing that, there’s no.

Oh.

There’s no need of that. There’s no reason why that should be. There’s other practical ways in the game of sports to try to get into the head of your competitors and try to, you know, gain little advantage. But that’s just not the way, you know. What I mean?

Not the way at all at the time. It’s the only time in 14 years that I was involved that we ever issued a game misconduct in a house. What game does that tell you?

Yeah, that was just water. What was he thinking and why? Well, it’s. Well, we won’t go down that alley, but.

So we.

That.

We will. We will go down. That alley, because it was like. It was like. I can understand why he made it, because his parents didn’t seem anything wrong with it and.

So what you’re telling me is the apple didn’t fall too far from the tree?

What I’m telling you is it’s a really good mental health book out there called own your past, change your future and our past shapes who we are is what I’m telling you.

Yeah. Yeah. And that’s now one of my greatest challenges now that I work with people is to bring value, help them to be the people.

Yes.

Good, moral, good, strong minded people that you know are are community minded and they want to build and create great things and there’s no room for that foolishness.

Yeah, I would. No, I agree. I would say you guys are pretty lucky. I I’ve had. Fortunately, the honor and pleasure speaking to your head pastor many times. As you know, I’ve had a couple of e-mail conversations. I’ve been on a zoom call with the both of you more than once. Some and he’s pretty progressive. I mean, one of the things you started doing as a volunteer before you even got in this room was like streaming your church services and. And that happened during COVID. No, but you’ve.

Yeah. Actually, we talked about that yesterday. We started in 2017. We kind of joked about it because he started with his phone and and I immediately said man, we can do better than that. And I just grabbed and put it on the laptop. Now the cameras we started.

Yes.

With we’re like a Sony Handycam or whatever that thing was, and it was somewhat, well, not primitive, but it isn’t what we have today. Yeah, but we learned a lot of lessons so that when COVID hit, we were ready. And what was even funny. You’ll you’ll find this. Amusing is that we would be in a church, recording him doing his sermon. And I would put this **** giant stuffed animal in a seat so that he could talk to that animal and feel like somebody was there. Yeah. It was hilarious. We still laugh about that till today.

And it’s funny because I’ve been doing live streaming since the infancy to the days where we used to throw webcams on phones, on top of BMX reps. So there you go. So I.

The.

And it’s. Just it it’s become so. Cheap to do to be honest with you at. This point.

Yeah, but it’s it takes skill to do it right, though.

I think one of the things that Pastor Dave does it really well is he embraces technology and newer ways of doing things. And I think in the churching, the church culture, depending on the religion and depending on the church. So let’s be.

Yeah.

There, but I think in many cases they missed the boat because they’re not looking for ways to change as the times change and part of the problem with doing that is then you’re not in. With your congregation, because your congregations living in a new world and in a lot of cases, a lot of church culture is. So it’s so 100 years ago.

Umm yeah, we were looking at our our basically. Our why statement and it’s loving your world to life. And if you think of Simon Sinek and the Golden Circle, that is why we do what we do. How we do is we reach, we teach, we mobilize, which means that.

Yeah.

We’re we’re not looking for people to come and sit. We want people to come and build a community to help others, to love those around them and to be the positive change in our community. And that is not accomplished when you just come every Sunday and sit. You need to serve. You need to, you know, reach out and be a positive force in your community.

And it’s more than the building, like a lot of people think. And I hate to say it. There’s ministers and reverends that think this way too. They have to be in church to believe, and I would argue very strongly. No, that’s only where it starts. You have to believe it as part of your value system all day long.

Yeah. Well, we’re we’re we really believe in community and community can happen any day of the week and we encourage that if communities only happening Sunday, we’ve missed the mark and we like people gathering and encouraging building one another up and literally strange enough we have a lot of guys in the church. That have motorcycles and so they will go on rips all a bunch of them. They’ll go and just drive and have a time of their. It’s and it’s. It’s what builds community.

I will share with you a story I think I’ve shared this with you and Dave before, so if I have, I’m sorry, but it’s interesting. I went quite frequently as a child. My parents were always in church. My dad was Presbyterian, my mom was Anglican. I’ve been baptized Anglican, so there’s not much difference. Between the two, there’s a few, but there’s nothing spectacular and. When we moved to Toronto, we got out of practice of going party is we didn’t find the community we wanted when we used to go in Quebec we we were very much in too much the church community. And my dad and I started going to the Presbyterian Church in Markham.

But.

And together and I went with my father because they I wanted to go back, but BI wanted to support him and what he was doing. And then the minister, the Reverend in the Presbyterian Church, got up and preached the sermon. How you are bad Christians if you are not in church on Sundays. Ohh and my father looked at me and said. Please don’t and I’m like, excuse me, I’m done. And I had a big discussion with the Reverend and several senior elder members of the church, how this is misguided information and this isn’t what God has taught us and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah and so on and so forth and. The looks on the elders face. This was where the hell did this guy come from with this viewpoint? And how articulate he was. And it’s interesting because that Reverend lasted, I think, three more months and was gone. Right. Yeah. But that experience soured me because I’m a big believer. If you believe in something that encompasses your life, it’s not just an hour a week, it’s. 24 hours a day, seven days a week? Absolutely.

Absolutely. And and strangely enough, Pastor Dave and I had this conversation. And and the crux of it is that in the world, people get beat down. They don’t need to be beat down anymore. They need to be lifted up and encouraged. And we want to encourage people to gather, build community. But it’s it’s not. We don’t beat people, we lift them up. We encourage them. That’s what motivates people to, you know, be in the community, build a community. If I mean, I like seeing people send I’m I miss them when they’re not there, but it’s not. We’re not making rules that if you don’t do that, you don’t go there, then you’re not a good person. You know what I mean? We, we want you there because we want to see you there. We want to engage with you. We like people.

Yeah, I think you guys are truly lucky between you and Dave and the rest of your team, you’ve got the right people to build people up instead of, as I say, going about things as we did 50 or 60 years ago and you know, I I’ll share with your nurse star. I can remember as a child. I actively went to Sunday schools and, you know, on Sundays while my parents were in church. And I had a. What was it? A church event? And then I had to sing both at Christmas time and then I had. To sing in the. School concert and it was so important back then that I didn’t choose. I didn’t. My parents were not happy. I did not choose which one I was going to. I went to both. And I went to the church event and then I was running backstage at the Christmas concert, cause I was part of a quartet to sing A Christmas Carol and and those for know know me. How the hell did Rob do that? Because I Can’t Sing for burns, beans or burns. But that’s besides the point anymore. But. The point was, that’s how important it was that my parents understood that where now it’s like. Instead of accepting people for who they are, which is the biggest premises the church is built on. We’re back into this. Look at us kind of thing. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah. Well, I’m pretty sure that if we can get people to a God that loves them, God’s big enough to change people. Yeah, I mean, it’s like. Yeah, my wife and I, I don’t try to change my wife. That’s not my job. I’m. I’m trying to, you know, bless her and encourage her. Be your partner and lead where I need to lead. But changing someone else, that’s God’s problem. That’s we work on ourselves, so to speak. And if I can just get the. And people like God that God can sort it out. He’s big enough to sort that stuff out.

No question. And if you gotta change your life that much, I hate to say you’re probably in. The wrong marriage or the wrong?

Well, I’ve when when see when I first started, they were frying pans and pots and pans flying.

You know, you and you and you can.

Tell us.

Yeah.

Yep.

So we have grown immensely over the years and I am glad I have my wife.

Yep. No, no question on that one. I’m not I. I just, really. Appreciate you sharing the story because it’s really interesting and I’m I’ve said this to you. First of all, I’m really proud of you and you know that and and you’re welcome. And it’s about doing what you’re passionate about and that’s why I wanted to share the.

Thank you.

Story not doing what you have to. And life is so much better when you do what you’re passionate about and you don’t. You’re not focused on that. I have to do this tomorrow. I have to do this now. I mean, I’m at that point where I do and deal with find some people, but I’m passionate about that. And if it doesn’t fit? Ohh, that’s OK. We move on. We just deal with it.

Exactly.

And and I’ll tell you my life is way much better doing that so.

Absolutely. It’s not like I’ve my life has got less busy. I’m. Both you and I are passionate about reading and I’m consuming books like no moral and I’m learning things that are gonna make me a better leader and better part of the church, so to speak, and so. A lot of what I’ve been doing, I’ll continue to do, but just in a different spot, but I really love it and I really and it’s not that it, there’s always challenges. Wherever you go, there’s no perfect place. The moment you get there, if it was perfect, it’s not perfect anymore because we are imperfect. But. To be in a place we actually love to go to work and you’re passionate about what you do regardless of what you do. That is wonderful and that’s where I find myself after all these years and I and I know that you and I have had some great conversations. We both you and I have done some amazing things. In our field of expertise, I mean we’ve. I left at the top of my game and I absolutely, and I know you’re at the top of your game, but there’s more game this new job. There’s more game to get on top of, so to speak, and more, more to do more challenges. And I’m a little bit still a little bit. Competitive. I’m still trying to work that and how that. How that literally plays itself out, but I would not between you and I, I would not mind having one of the to be the fastest growing church in Canada and we are heading in that direction. We’ve got a great leadership team, but like every place, every business, your team absolutely matters. Your attitude matters that people are passionate. What they’re doing it matters. And so I find myself. Going around the mountain again, this time something else applying all the skills that I’ve learned over the years and literally having a great time at it.

Yeah, I would. I would agree with you and I think where a lot of it comes down to. Is how you treat people.

Hmm.

Give you an example. On Monday I was walking and. Tizz’s office. And I hadn’t been in there a while. And I ran into one of the 80 year old founders of the business. I was standing waiting for. And he came up and he knows the health stuff I’ve been through in the last six months. And he made a point to stop it, not just to say hi, but to genuine, they say. How are you feeling? How are you doing? How’s how’s the health? What’s going on on his way out for the day? And he could have there Sam, very easily. Little run by me and been, you know, I’m busy and yadda yadda yadda. And he made and he made the time. And the reason I shared that story is because it’s all how you treat people, yeah. And I I said to Tiz walking out, I said that’s so Sam. And anytime I’ve met him at corporate events or talked to him, that’s so who he is. And he and it’s all how you treat people. Cause all I try and do is treat people the. Way I want to be treated.

Absolutely. And to one of things, I continue to learn to be better at is to be present in the moment. Yeah, in the conversation, whatever’s going not. In my mind, somewhere else but be present in the moment.

The way we do this is you see this thing in my hand when you’re out with your friends. Take this thing and turn it over, or put it somewhere and be done with it like that. I hate to tell you I love technology, but they’re the biggest reasons people aren’t present in the moment. It’s so easy to pick it up and scroll and get distracted and.

Too late.

If you want to pick it up to take pictures, that’s one thing. Or to show something, somebody, something that’s in a conversation that’s in the moment. But then when you’re done. Put it down, go back to playing board games. We sat on the beach on Sunday. What did we do on beach chairs? We sat and played backgammon on Beach lounges on the beach, and how hard is that? And the and I and and by the way, the cell phone went in and done me any good anyway, because the resorts in the middle of nowhere.

Yeah.

In the dead spot.

Yeah.

Yeah, but it it’s life is short. We need to take advantage of. Where we find ourselves because there. I mean, be present in the moment today. Let tomorrow worry about itself. Cause I mean both you and I are well able to take care of whatever’s coming down the road. But enjoying like I I know you protect your weekends and you love your weekends and you love spending it with this. It’s important to protect those. Because at the end of the day, if you don’t, no one else will. Everybody will take from your time and literally ruin your weekend if you. Let them. Yeah. And so being able to slow down, enjoy the moment and sometimes enjoying the moment. Is not a fast-paced endeavor, but like backgammon, just lying on a chair, having great conversations, just playing the game. You’re thinking wow, how productive can that be? We’re not worried about being productive. You’re worried about being present in the moment in people’s lives, and that’s one of the things, as a pastor, I’m learning is that we’re having some pretty high level conversations. People real, for instance, they need hope. Someones died in the family. I am. I have not done my first funeral yet. I my first funeral ever was my mother, so that kind of ruined things. But I know in invariably that will come along, but being kind and present and loving to the family, that’s literally lost someone that they love. And these are conversations that. You just can’t grab your phone and be texting while you’re talking to people. You absolutely need to slow down. And be listening to what people are saying.

I get that Monday night after we left his office, we were headed to a friend of hers who she worked with. Who lost her husband and it in the Orthodox culture, people get together 40 days after the somebody passes away. Just. Yeah. And sit and chat and and get together. So we had. We were going by Tina’s house afterwards and and earlier and we. I had gone to the Funeral Home with us and Tina said I hope Rob’s coming just because. Us being there and we both got texts after saying how much it meant to her that both of us were there on. Monday to news. And sometimes you just have to do what’s right and supporting your friends and your family.

Yeah.

Is generally what’s right. I think some people don’t get that there’s too much garbage in families. I’ve been through that before. You’ve been through that before. We’ve all been.

Ohh yes, you and I’ve had some great conversations around all the stuff that we’ve encountered over the years.

And. Yeah. And I think truthfully, I think you’re close to your friends sometimes because. You pick your friends, you do not pick your family, and I say that a lot and and you pick your partner and that’s important too. So if you wanted to leave people with one thing that was really a challenge in this transition, what was?

Yeah. It’s just to make the decision and do it. I kind of.

Yep.

Took my time, I I probably overanalyzed the switch is probably what I did and that’s an ongoing conversation that the lead pastor and I have over some of the other stuff cause I want to make sure that like my role now matters in the hearts and minds of people, I want to make sure that I don’t go in like a Wrecking Ball.

Yep.

And so. Make the decision and do it. If you’re right, great. If you’re wrong, you can fix it, but awfully in the middle. Back and forth. That doesn’t produce much goodness, will say, and it can slow you down. Now, fortunately I had time. And strengths that I work within programs running, stuff like that. But I knew I would say three months before the end that this was heading in that direction. You and I’ve had and I appreciate our conversations because I really had to process that. Was I really gonna pull the trigger on this thing?

I think she. Needs six months before. Personally, you’re selling yourself a little short, I think, but that’s.

Yeah, but that’s that’s what I would leave. People just make the decision. Get as much great information as you can and do it. Once you’ve got the information, do not procrastinate. Just.

That’s, I say the day you.

Do it. I like to. I I left in the top of my game. I left right. I knew that if I went longer, they would not be a gracious leaving. I would probably just the way things were going. It probably would have been bad, so to speak. So leave on the top.

It would have, it would have crashed.

Of your game.

Unburned Jeff. As always. Thank you. I appreciate you. I think more than you realize. And I just want to say thanks for doing this. Appreciate it.

Bob, I really appreciate your friendship and one thing I’ll say is if you’re listening to this, you need somebody like rob that you can both throw things back and forth. Life is not meant like no man is an island. We’re not meant to do this life all by ourselves. Find somebody. That you can engage with, that you can trust. That you can share stuff with and you know it’s. Not going anywhere. Else and grow together in that friendship. You do need friends and pick your friends wisely. But you do need somebody.

I love ending on that note. Thanks so much Jeff. Have an awesome day, my friend, be well.

Thank you, rob.