Transcript for the Podcast

Please Note the Transcripts are approximate as we Use an Automated Service to Generate Them

Unknown Speaker 0:38
Hey Rob Cairns CEO, Chief Creator of Amazing Ideas at I am here today with my friend Makul Verma And what we’re going to talk about today is the whole aspect of developing apps on smartphones where they matter and how they play out in the market.

Unknown Speaker 1:00
Place and what you as a company are small businesses we could do to use apps to benefit.

Unknown Speaker 1:06
We met the first time, many years ago at a conference in Toronto called word 11. We reconnected, we got talking about apps, and we thought it would be a great opportunity to share the whole app journey with you, the business owner, sit back, relax, and enjoy it the right

Unknown Speaker 1:28
chord. And my cow. How are you doing today, my friend? I’m doing good. How are you doing? Doing good. So, you know, you and I have known each other a little bit. We’ve kind of reconnected. We talked, we met rich thing at work camp. 2011, right. Yeah, that’s a long, long time ago, at a conference in Toronto. And we’ve got talking again, and you kind of work in the app space, which is interesting. So tell me a little bit about what you do, what your businesses and how you got into the app space.

Unknown Speaker 2:00
Okay, so yeah, so I’m working on the mobile apps I’ve been doing since 2012. So it’s been seven years now. And we kind of were, we were in the web space prior to the app space, and we kind of were looking for something new. We had all these conditions we wanted to do for business on that. And when the space opportunity kind of came, whatnot, this at the end of the day is, is business marketing, programming, and design. That’s essentially what makes up an app. And between me and my partner, we have the design and the business marketing side of it. So we thought we’d have the competitive advantage of getting into the app space. So we got into mobile apps in 2012. We built a number of apps, cutting a number of installs and built, getting our revenue in it, and as of this year now doing consulting for other apps as well. So now getting into the mobile apps, I’ve had people ask for consulting and it’s been kind of fun. So now, I’m doing that as well as we’re doing our own projects, as well as consulting for other businesses for mobile apps. And that’s really cool. Now

Unknown Speaker 3:00
Of You say you went from doing web space to the app space? Why? And what kinds of differences are you seeing by being just in the web space to being in the app space? So I think I think with the web businesses we had, we were, we weren’t doing client work on it, but they were kind of hitting their cap on what we could do with them. We really couldn’t build them any bigger than we did. And I thought, if we’re going to do something, you guys will find something with a huge opportunity. And 2012 you remember, the space is only four years old, right? Like 2008 was when mobile apps actually became a thing, which is kind of crazy now. honest, we kind of saw a lot of opportunity for long term game there. And we’ve also sold a number of apps as well and kind of cashed out on that. So

Unknown Speaker 3:44
the reason we did it was just because we saw there was a lot of opportunities mixed with our competitive skill sets. Yeah, and I think the reason people need to think about apps realistically is we all have a phone in our hands or within a reach from us, right our or a tablet like

Unknown Speaker 4:00
Let’s be fair. And I think the last stat I read was 60 to 65% of all searches are done on a mobile device right now. Right. So that would not surprise me. Because we’re totally moving away from computers to the mobile right now. Look, everything has been done on mobile. Yeah, yeah. And I think for some people, that’s really that’s really understood. I mean, I know, I know, for me, like, I’ll be sitting and the kind of the two apps that kind of come to mind Greg away from the app space is mobile banking. And I was reading a stat the other day that even in the banking space, believe it or not, 70 to 75% of people want to do their mobile banking through the app, not to the web browser. So that’s interesting. In Canada, and the other is ordering things like Amazon things like online shopping, I know from my tendencies, I’ll go to a nap before I’ll I’ll look at the browser kind of things. Yeah, absolutely. I’ve seen thinking even

Unknown Speaker 5:00
With apps is like you can do payments for a food, just go right into restaurants, pick up your food, right? And everything is done with what’s not if your credit card is informations in there, it’s so easy, right? They remember the order from last time, right? Or say you place your order, right on the app, you walk in, you pick it up, you walk out, there’s nothing else that needs to be exchanged was super easy. And two good examples of that, like with food that come to mind right away when I use all the time to skip the dishes and Canada, right, and then your credit cards era and they deliver it. And the other one is the big one is super, I mean, you know, to be honest with you, I’m not I’m not hunting around for money in my pocket, my credit card numbers attached to my Uber account, or my Uber I get charged and I’m done and goodbye and forget about it right you can problem solve. Um, okay, so let’s talk good about a apps. We were talking about this a little bit offline. So Android or iOS and why? Yeah, yeah, we definitely having a conversation about that.

Unknown Speaker 6:00
I like iOS, but I think that there is a room for both. So it really depends on the user what they want. If you want simplicity, go over to iOS, you’re gonna pay a lot more for it. Right? If you like fiddling around your device, and if you like adding other stuff on to it, right, um, then Android is definitely the place to go. And things with computers. The same thing with mobile, mobile’s the exact is the exact same way, where guys who like to actually like customize their devices and customize their phone. And Android makes a lot more sense, right? For people who just want simplicity, simply done. iOS makes a lot more sense. I can go in there’s a lot of differences between Google Play and iOS. I can discuss some of those if you want. Yeah, I mean, go ahead. What are the differences between Google Play and iOS at the App Store on Apple? So if you look, if you look at the big differences, you ever Apple is a design marketing company, right? So they want things to look pretty they want things to look

Unknown Speaker 7:00
I’m saying easy to be, if you ever look at their search, the search is just a terrible, right? where Google comes from a search background right there a search company, right? So they’re more about algorithms. They’re more about data, right? So if you ever go to app stores like Apple, Apple, all the creating data, right, make it look pretty, right? You if you want to succeed on the Google Play Store, you need to understand how their algorithms work in the same way with SEO, you need to work with their algorithm. So it’s a very different mindset. The other big difference that we were talking about earlier was money as somebody who’s on the side developing apps, right?

Unknown Speaker 7:34
Say it’s been 20 to one from my experience, favorite apple. So I’m going to meet for $20 a week on the Apple App Store. I’m gonna make $1 on the Google Play Store. And now if I go to the social media network, or if I wanted to get a lot of users, then Android would be the place to be because androids gonna have a lot more users than iOS. Right now. If another thing we were discussing earlier was if you’re looking to compliment an existing business, you have to compliment

Unknown Speaker 8:00
You’d have to actually do both, because you’re going to have users on both sides. That that is that is so true. Also in terms of apps, and I’ve probably used my fair share I sent you. Before we got on this, I’ve probably got over 100 apps closer 240 apps on my phone. I’m a bit of a hog. I like to try stuff out. And then I get rid of it. Try stuff out. And I pay for apps to do both.

Unknown Speaker 8:26
What works really well, from an app perspective, just a straight app, or an app with the in app purchases? And and if you can talk about what in app purchases are for listeners. So in app purchases, basically purchasing something in the app, right? So if you buy like extra virtual currencies, or if you buy goods or anything you’re buying, like right in the app is considered to be an app purchase. I think I think it’s not really one blanket fits all. I believe monetization has a lot to do the user experience. Um, you need to really understand your user experience like

Unknown Speaker 9:00
There’s 25 that we use 25 different ways to monetize. So there’s a lot of different ways to use it and sometimes just advertise it and make sense, right? Sometimes in app purchases will make sense. Sometimes sponsorship would make sense, right? Sometimes just do the paid app would make sense. I think it really depends on your users and understanding that user experience. Yeah, is there is a sweet spot for paid apps like a number that works really well or does it just kind of depends. There always is a sweet spot for paid apps. But I would say that sweet spot, it keeps on changing because I don’t want point like, we were doing 99 cents. And then we put it up to 299. And all of a sudden the perceived value was there. But with that tonight, nine, we’re giving $25 worth of in app purchases or paid stuff in the free version of the app, because some people would rather just have all the extra bells and whistles they’d rather have your advertisement right and rather do that. So I would say sweet spot really comes to testing depends on the industry, and you really got to ask

Unknown Speaker 10:00
To find out what works in your market. But that said, there’s always a market for users that just would rather pay up friend and don’t want to worry about it. It’s becoming the smaller and smaller market. But there’s still that market of people who would prefer that. Yeah, I think you really do got a test and I don’t care if it’s an app, web property, whatever you’re doing. Many people make the mistake that just Where did you get the number? Oh, I pulled it out of thin air. I’ve heard that more times than I can count. And I’m kind of chuckling as they say that because we’ve all probably done it at one time. And said, where’d you get this number? Oh 599 sounded good. Right? So we’ll just deal with it. And that’s why I’m hesitant to give you a straight answer on it because depending on the person living here if they own like a flower shop, right, or if they have like an e commerce website like it’s a very different you can’t really say one thing will fit all right, it’s it’s like you guys sit down you got to look at the situation and then figure out the best solution for that. Yep. What guys you have

Unknown Speaker 11:00
favorite types of industries to work with or design app for it? Do you have? Do you have a preference?

Unknown Speaker 11:06
My victims of industries? So I’ve done a lot in the gaming industry. And the reason I’ve done that is because when we got into this, and we’re working on our own projects, and that’s where the data was, right, we were in an industry that was only four years old. Right? And I’m more analytics and more systems and business processes, right. Like I, we were talking about the testing, and you got to use the data to grow, right. And games was where both the data and the money was, at that time. in it that said, we’re now doing other apps, right, like quotes, apps and budgeting opportunities. f1 just released a bunch of last week. Right, just for our personal on it. But I think I think the standards can be their standards that can be used across all industries. There are things you need to be doing across all different types of industries. Yeah, I think that’s true. I mean, again, the gaming businesses kind of exploded, I mean, you can probably

Unknown Speaker 12:00
Thanks single for that right there kind of like when they’re the big guys. But what most people don’t realize with companies like Zynga is they’ve put out thousands of apps out there, right? They, they,

Unknown Speaker 12:11
they they get they’ve kind of fought, played their lunch spot the market and see what falls routine, right. So they’ve they’ve just kind of kind of flooded, they’re probably the most norm, but there’s several others out there and they think but I think they’re starting to be a shift. And I think where the shift is happening is we’re starting to see more productivity type apps arrive on the smartphone as well. Right. So yeah, absolutely. Like if I was to start all over again today, I probably wouldn’t move over to gaming because that data is now like seven years later. That gate that data is now there in a lot of different apps, business abstract and the apps identity just gonna make people’s lives easier. I think it’s whatever you’re adding value to people with your app. And that’s where it comes for, like people like local businesses, like if you’re adding values to make your customers life easier.

Unknown Speaker 13:00
is probably the most important thing. Yeah, yeah, I know like for me, I just switched project management packages. And one of my requirements was, if there’s not an app on my phone for it, I can shut stuff on the fly. It’s not happening.

Unknown Speaker 13:16
One of the things we’re talking about offline was Google, and their Google Drive app. And one of the things they do really well on their app is, and I didn’t even know it was there until a couple weeks ago, somebody mentioned to me, you can actually you don’t have to install a PDF scanner. You can actually do a scan right to Google Drive from the from the internet, things like that. They just kinda make your business for and make your life go on. The whole purpose of an app is just to make our busy lives a little easier not to not to compound like if you want to put it that way. Absolutely. Yeah, it is. It is a big deal. And I think what’s gonna happen in the future is like, we look at websites today, right? And we see how they’re managing a business without a website is

Unknown Speaker 14:00
dead in the water, right? Like you need to have a website as a business. But there was a time where you told the businesses and they’re like looking at it like, No, I don’t need a website. It’s costing them but it’s not making them direct money by more than information. Now, now,

Unknown Speaker 14:14
it’s gotten a lot more complicated than that. But if you’re looking at that time, you didn’t have a website, you pretty much be out. And I think that options can come the same thing. At some point, like you don’t look and operate now. I’m a little bit Oh, my business may not need enough. But I think we’re going to look back 20 years from now and be like, you know what? I’m not I don’t have an opera. People can’t reach out to me easily on mobile. That’s a problem. That’s a real problem. Yeah. And I think what’s driving that is, there’s a couple things. Basically two people going out and getting full scale computers. So we’re talking desktops and laptops, or people in business or people that are working, or people that need them for school. But the casual users are saying okay, all I need is a phone and a tablet.

Unknown Speaker 15:00
We’re seeing that even in the seniors markets are going out and saying, What do I need to beautiful all he needs is phone and a tablet. Right. So I think I think with that shift coming,

Unknown Speaker 15:09
there’s going to be a shift in the, in the marketplace as well.

Unknown Speaker 15:14
Yeah, absolutely. And I think like when the last six years, PC sales have been down every single quarter, there’s only one quarter last year, they were absolutely up. But for 16 years, they’ve been going down. And that proves that the shift is there. It’s already happening. And you just look around us, it’s definitely changed quite a bit. Yep, more and more people are doing stuff cloud based. So you know, to be honest, with the need an iOS or an Android device, even though there’s a perceived marketing thing, I think that differences are are changing, except for its simplicity, or changing lesson lesson day. I think, I think people you know, what do you look at an app for a certain feature on iOS or on Android? Most of them they use your experiences pretty well, the same now? Yeah, I think the differences are

Unknown Speaker 16:00
getting less and less. And it’s

Unknown Speaker 16:02

Unknown Speaker 16:04
excuse. It’s almost turning into a marketing. Perfect. Yep. Yeah, exactly. It’s kind of the is I am. So one thing we didn’t talk about before was when I bought my iPhone 10. Last year, I paid full price for a and I certainly look at the Android Market. every couple of years, you need to kind of look at both markets and be have an open mind to see what you know, I’m an iOS guy. It doesn’t mean that you shut the other side down, right. But what happened is I have Apple TV, I have an iPad, not pro right back, some kind of in the economy of Apple already. So all of a sudden getting an Android phone would kind of give me that disconnect. And I think when you say marketing, I think they’re also building an ecosystem around it, where you’ve got people who are already in the Google Home, right? say they’ve already got their computers, they’ve already got all the Google products that kind of go with it. And I think that they’re slowly like, we don’t even realize

Unknown Speaker 17:00
This but they’re building that ecosystem where I now have to go with their product because if you don’t, it’s disconnected make your life easier. I don’t disagree one that one. The markets I like to attribute this to is see I did the digital SLR camera market. If you go to a Nikon camera, you’re in that ecosystem because you’re buying Nikon lenses. So you go to a Canon Canon, you’re in that ecosystem.

Unknown Speaker 17:23
And I I truly think we’re there with the market that we’re in, where if you tend to go Apple, you you go it’s easier because of the connections if you tend to go PC slash Google, you’re kind of any control Amazon in the ecosystem as well a little bit, you know, where you’re kind of get aside. And you know, you talked about Google Home and the home automation market. That’s just a great example. I mean, you either go with Apple solution, Google solution, you go to Amazon solution, and then you’re, you’re kind of locked in. So I think you

Unknown Speaker 18:00
really got to take a good look and say, okay, where do I really want to go? And which ecosystem do I want to live in? And that will drive what type of device you get, what type of phone you get, and and so on. And, and I think that’s, like a spot on comment. Really? Yeah, absolutely. I know. Now whenever I buy anything, I’m going to be aware that, well, you know, what, if I gotta replace these devices, am I gonna be staying in this ecosystem? Am I not yet? Right? And I think you said both ecosystems are good. It’s just at this point. There are benefits of each right. Like Samsung’s got way better cameras on it right? Then Apple apples, apparently with the next one can catch up on that. And they’re actually going to be in the same league. But there are, there are pros on both sides. It’s just really what ecosystem and then you’ve got company Chinese company like Hawaii, or Huawei who’s in nine, and the camera on the P 30. And I haven’t looked at one but i i need to very soon because I think my wife

Unknown Speaker 19:00
So looking at that one then saying, you know, I like to Cameron that their reputation for the cameras is very good. I have I know I carry analogy, thing to seven, which is last year’s model, the fin que wages out camera on it is very good. I mean, I think the camera is as much to drive the smartphone now as what happy Can I really do? I mean, I think that’s becoming for a lot of people a priority. So it’s interesting. It’s interesting, you said, because I think the one thing that both Apple and Google Play does is the market is a byproduct of them selling hardware, right? They make some money, they don’t make a lot of money on the app stores. But this is what sells their hardware. If your app is the major apps, I think now you have to go for both right? If you’re not in the business, if you’re not in the mobile business where you’re making 100% of your money from the app, right, you’re got it you gotta be developing for both your customers because they are 5050 but for the longest time

Unknown Speaker 20:00
Apple and Google wanted you on the platform because they were selling hardware through what your apps were. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 20:07
and I think, and the other thing that works mentioned just by talking about the money, and it’s some hardware, it’s not always just hardware, it’s also the patent money. Because if you ever look at, you know, Apple makes a patent every after every Google device sets sold, and vice versa, because they all have interchangeable patents out there. And the biggest patent company of them all, is this Canadian company living up in Waterloo called Blackberry. I mean, you know, they’re not making any money on handsets. They’re not making any money on apps. They’re making all their money in the mobile space on patents right now is and that’s kept blackberry alive, actually, because they’re making millions of dollars on just what they own. Yeah, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 20:51
And they’re definitely a revolution company. It’s sad to see BPM go next month. That’s unfortunate. Yeah, I saw that. They’re going to shut that down.

Unknown Speaker 21:00
But yeah, and it’s crazy because even in black with our people who still don’t want to do that live by their BlackBerry’s right there, but I’m not surprised BPM has been shut down because the biggest problem with App messaging is there’s no messaging standard right now. And I don’t know about you, but I have seven messaging programs on my phone. So it’s gotten stupid.

Unknown Speaker 21:25
Yeah, I’ve got WhatsApp, I’ve got Facebook. LinkedIn has its own messaging. And they’re very smart, moved by Facebook to actually go in the messaging business because I pretty much had people already there. Yeah. And I think there’s a good lesson in blackberry because blackberry was a great company. They were really ahead of their time. They met it a lot. But like we were talking earlier, right, design, programming marketing business, they didn’t necessarily make it for the common user where Apple made it really dummy proof. Right? blackberry just did not do that. Now, they didn’t, they didn’t. So let’s let’s

Unknown Speaker 22:00
Trying to talk about making money from apps. There’s a couple of ways to make money. One is in app purchases, which we talked about. One is development for a third party business, right for somebody like yourself, and then there’s then there’s the sale of the app says or any other good way to make direct money or indirect money for the apps. Yeah. So this is, yeah, this is this a big conversation itself. And I think you’ve covered basically in app purchases there which could be either unlocking features or offering more credits or letting people save use of the other see, is currency is a big one when it comes to in app purchases as well. The biggest trend right now is subscriptions. Like it seems like if you look at the top grossing charts, the Netflix right say of the world would say it’s subscription based is probably I’d say the hottest trend right now and then and absolutely, definitely moving to a subscription base. Because people don’t mind songs are getting a value out on it. You do need to it is an art definitely

Unknown Speaker 23:00
A piece of work, you need to be ongoing with adding value. So I would say with the direct from consumer that I’d say with our business most has been indirect. So the big one that you didn’t touch on there was advertising. So that alone probably has like 10 different ways on it. And the biggest thing I’d say is that you can do interstitial, just static ads, you can do a rewarded videos, right? You just do regular videos, that you do playable ads now where you can actually play part of a game, or part of something, take some actions in the actual advertisement. So you might actually see like nod pop up, I’ll say make these three moves. Right, you actually get an idea of how the app works before you go the app. And if you like it, then you can always go over there. Right. So I would say I’d say advertising is definitely a big one. With all those user experience is really, really important. And I see sometimes that frustrates me because you might have like an app which is like 20

Unknown Speaker 24:00
seconds to a minute to us. And then you short 32nd video. It’s a it’s like you want to piss your users off, right? We’re going to do something with the short user experience, go put in a static ad or put in something, they can click right? If you’re going to do like a four minute or five minute user experience, and you put a 32nd ad in it, that’s cool, right? You really got you really got to think about user experience. If they’re spending more time on ads, and they are using an app, that’s just not a good thing to do. The other is rewarded videos are rewarded action. So like offer walls, which include like saving, taking surveys, right and stuff like that, or like watching videos, or stuff like that, where people are getting coins and stuff in it. That’s also been pretty hot the last few years where, where people are not going to pay for stuff in the app, but they will take an action by a third party and you get paid for that. Right.

Unknown Speaker 24:52
That’s a big, no and I get where you’re coming from with user experience. Like when I kind of looked at, you know, I’m an Android

Unknown Speaker 25:00
Now look at the Google Play Store. And I know before I download apps, I kind of look at quickly see, is there anything glaring in the review section that’s glaring? And my rule of thumb with reviews is if it’s not well thought out, I kind of ignore the review. But one thing I do look for is the consistency with Google, with user experience. And one of the big forms I seal with a lot of apps is the user experience is bad. There’s too many ads, their ads are too long, you know, so you gotta, you gotta find that medium to make money. But you want your users there and not not their kind of thing. Absolutely. One of the biggest capitals I find users made is the onboarding experience. I’m sorry, you feel it, onboarding. So just explain that out. Go ahead and explain it. But experiences like when someone first comes in an app, how do they use your app? Right? So like, you press this button, you go here, you this explains the features of an app, right? But there are a lot of apps when they’re developed. The developers are

Unknown Speaker 26:00
Thank you. Okay, let me make this up and maybe intuitive this up, but not intuitive to the rest of the world. Right? So they are and you remember, most, I shouldn’t say most, but a lot of apps are never opened a second time. So the first time you get into nap, how you have that user experience is really, really important. Right? So taking the time to do the onboarding, Spencer, right, is a really critical, because your users are going to base it off the first of using your app. Right? I think with user experience that that that quite often gets missed. All No, no question. Like we always say, people judge books by the cover. I think in Apps people judge in the first 30 seconds, is it hard to set up? Is it hard to get used to? Is it hard on board. And if the onboarding is bad, I can almost guarantee you I know from my experience, I’ll take that app and put it in the trash can very quickly, like I’m done, because there’s just probably five other apps out there that do similar things and if it’s, if it’s really bad, I just kind of

Unknown Speaker 27:00
Goodbye, I’m finished. And and, you know,

Unknown Speaker 27:03
especially in the gaming space, I mean, you know,

Unknown Speaker 27:06
I kind of look at a program like Solitaire and people laugh when I mentioned that just probably over 100 Solitaire apps in the iOS store, I would think easy, right? And oh, yeah. And if it’s awful, why why wouldn’t I just move to the next one? You know?

Unknown Speaker 27:23
Absolutely. And the thing is, like, and I know that I’ve had this conversation people, it’s like, well, you open the app, you go the menu, you just press this on it. If you want the tutorial, it’s just a turtle down here. Yes, you’ve been looking at this for a long period of time. That’s very easy to you. And I’m not going to disagree that it’s easy to use, but the first time then they’re just make their life a little bit easier. Right? By saying like, yeah, yeah, yes, it is very intuitive. But sometimes things are intuitive. also need to have that little bit of a walkthrough. And it’s coming back to what you said whereas the first 30 seconds, you know, get that person in if they just show up the menu and they’re not sure what the Clegg you’re going to lose them. Yeah, so true.

Unknown Speaker 28:00
One thing to say, you’ve moved into with your business, right? leasing the consultant what kind of consulting you’re doing for us. Um, so I’m doing consulting, but more on the business side of it, and also on the design side of it as well. So what I find is that a lot of apps and the reason I believe that most apps, say, most apps fail is because you’ve got programmers are building these apps are designers are building these apps, but they don’t understand the business and marketing side of it. And that includes things like analytics, right, as we talked about testing things, I’m very monetization, what you’re talking about user experience we talked about, but it’s just like the small things that make a big difference on it. So what I’m doing now is I’ve had people approached me asked me consultants actually kind of fun so I’m now taking on clients to do consulting with them but I’ll just I’ll sit down look at their whole business and find things that need to be done like doing this for seven years day in and day out of my own ops. Are you kind of see things in a very different way that other people see you? Yeah, I’m so it’s just

Unknown Speaker 29:00
I find those small easy wins that those small changes, which can actually help me a bigger win. And the other thing is if people need a new app, so if you don’t have an app right now, and you’re looking to get an app build, sit down, have that discussion as well, and helping plan out how to build an app very cost effectively. So, so true. And one of the things you’ve touched on, is analytics. And I want to go there for a second.

Unknown Speaker 29:25
Most small businesses or medium businesses or even large businesses, they don’t know their numbers, and it’s really I know, being a marketer. It’s really frustrating. Sometimes when I sit down with a new client, I said, Okay, what are your numbers? I don’t know.

Unknown Speaker 29:41
How did you do on this ad campaign? I don’t know. How did you do on your website last month? I don’t know. And, and,

Unknown Speaker 29:48
and I described not knowing analytics to shooting darts at a dartboard blindfolded, like I really do. Because if you can’t measure it, you can’t improve it and you can’t make it better. Right. So absolutely.

Unknown Speaker 30:00
days. It’s interesting cuz I sat down with a client had a successful business six figure business as we’re talking about analytics, and they didn’t know and I’m like, you know what, this would be a seven figure business. Yeah, if you know the analytics in it, right? It’s, it blows my mind where people don’t have analytics. And then it’s pretty basic. I’ll give you an example of it. So one of our apps, we were going through Google Analytics, and we had it in there, and we were looking at stuff. And I found something in there one change is by revenue by 25%. And it just, it blew my mind. Like, it’s how simple five is like one change, it took two hours, all of a sudden, we’re now making 25% more revenue. That is awesome. That’s what that’s the power of analytics right there. Yeah, it happens all the time. And like, you know,

Unknown Speaker 30:44
if you can’t measure it, you can’t improve it. And that’s, and that’s the biggest thing. So if there’s any lesson anybody listening, I don’t care if it’s apps or website, or what you’re doing, know what your numbers are, because you’ll grow that way. And that’s how you grow your business.

Unknown Speaker 31:00
So we’ve talked a little bit about apps. So I’m gonna kind of go a little different now.

Unknown Speaker 31:04
You were differently than most people are very similar to a lot of people in this space. What are your favorite tools that you use to run your business? Oh, one of my favorite tools to run my business.

Unknown Speaker 31:19
So, we talked about Google Drive. So we use a lot of Google Drive to collaborate with our team. Or use Trello central chose a good note taking team and get to be able to keep track on it. Dropbox.

Unknown Speaker 31:32
I know that’s gonna make you cringe, but drop.

Unknown Speaker 31:38
And I love Trello. By the way, I was a trauma user for many, many years. And I was telling you earlier offline that yet one of the things I looked at for a new project management tool and those using drove for project management.

Unknown Speaker 31:52
I’ve actually moved one more step I’ve moved from Trello to a newer product called notion which you might have heard. Okay, nobody

Unknown Speaker 32:00
Does travel style boards but it does other things, too. So it’s kind of integrated. But yeah, I, anybody who’s looking for a good tool to manage stuff, travel is kind of a great product I love it actually wouldn’t was the one that I really liked. I use Gmail over, I have my business email addresses because you need to have it on your website. It’s only professional to do that. But actually send everything in Gmail, because I find the search in Gmail is just amazing. Like I can pull up in two seconds, every conversation you and I have had since 2011, right it within seconds. And to me that’s like, I don’t even remember this stuff, right? So I actually find that like, it might sound simple, but I find that Gmail searches, a powerful tool until Skype, Skype search, we’re talking about Skype earlier. Yeah. And just like when I collaborate with the team, it’s easier to have a Skype conversation because that way all the notes are there, right? You just use search. Yeah, I would say to anybody looking for an email, so

Unknown Speaker 33:00
Lucian, I mean, our recommended being doing work on the website is for your business is G sweet for that exact reason g sweet. For those who don’t know, let you take your domain and send your domain email that email. So and it’s not just about search. It’s also about the spam filters. I mean, Gmail has the best spam filters in the industry by far. I just know, if I take my email out at gmail, and I start running my corporate email, my spam goes up by 200%. And that just pulls my hair out. And then all the filters, I mean, the labeling and stuff like that I sometimes I’ll show you offline, but I’ve got a convoluted set of over 1000 over 200 Gmail rules that manage my inbox that basically says, If I get an email from here, put it here and get it out of my inbox and I’m not 200 but I’m probably over 50 for sure. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I need is there any other tools you like?

Unknown Speaker 34:01
On the What else?

Unknown Speaker 34:03
would I say?

Unknown Speaker 34:06
I guess, business and generally looking for on the upside or both both on the eye, okay, so I think Google Analytics again, for Ops, I find Firebase to be really good

Unknown Speaker 34:18
on there just to keep it um, Apple does give you some data. But it has a lot of people don’t even look at their Apple data, like when they get that in their back end if it connects, right, because actually gives you some data. And the interesting thing is you can work on that conversion with that, right? Changing icons, changing graphics, doing account conversion, and split testing. That is really good. So you see how many people come through? Like I find that with apps, that’s one thing to over Miss is, you’ll see how many people have actually scrolled by your

Unknown Speaker 34:48
clicked on your product page, right? How many people converted through and small differences can make it an easy win to get more installs by doing that? Yeah, I would agree

Unknown Speaker 35:00
It’s all on numbers. And those are some great tools. Any tool coming up that you’ve looked at or something new that you’ve kind of said, either in the app space or not in the app space that you say, geez, this is different. This would help I need to look at this. Well, I find it interesting to zoom. Like we’re using zoom right now. And it’s like, oh, I have Skype. Why would I need skin but just the recording of it, and that makes it a lot easier to do. And I think zoom is definitely doing some interesting things. Yeah. as well. So that’s probably hasn’t entered my atmosphere in last six months on it, but I think three interesting, they’re really making inroads. I mean, I’ve been watching I’m a big hockey fan and I’ve even seen some ads and from us arenas with zoom on the board right now. So they’re really kind of going all in their advertising more and they’re putting themselves out there which is interesting for a company that’s really made their their mark in the entrepreneur space. I mean, they

Unknown Speaker 36:00
Don’t don’t do a lot of big business. You know, the golden my meeting is kind of the big business equivalent the Citrix product and they’re there. So not in with the big businesses, but the small businesses. It’s it’s like night and day. So

Unknown Speaker 36:16
it’s been a great conversation. If somebody wants to get a hold of you consulting wants to talk traps, what’s the best way to find you? Yes, going to mobile apps. com is probably the best way m ok. l. a is probably the best way to say it’s probably the best way to reach me. I can do my email as well. So it’s it’s Mughal am UK you l at mobile apps. com

Unknown Speaker 36:43
as well. So you can reach out to me at all. If you want have a conversation on doing an app or consulting and stuff like that. Happy to have a conversation with them, and then go from there. And thank you very much for your time today. It’s been a great conversation and have a wonderful day. Thank you very much.

Unknown Speaker 37:00
Welcome back.

Unknown Speaker 37:02
Thank you for listening to the esteem interview show. This Podcast is a production of stunning digital marketing. com. The agency that can help you with your web design, or press security and digital marketing needs. Please subscribe to this podcast. This podcast can be found on Stitcher, radio, Spotify, Google podcasts, Apple podcasts and more. Please don’t miss the next edition.

Unknown Speaker 37:32
This podcast comes out every Thursday for your listening enjoyment.

Unknown Speaker 37:37
Until next time, please keep your feet on the ground and keep reaching for the stars. And we’ll talk to y’all soon. Have a great week everybody. Bye for now.

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