Episode 158: Talking Email Marketing Automation With Jason Resnick

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Show Summary

Rob Cairns sits down with Jason Resnick to discuss one of there favorite topics – Email Marketing Automation.

Show Highlights:

1. Why Email Marketing Automation.
2. Things to think about when doing Email Marketing Automation.
3. Why Never to use donotreply@yourdomain.com
4. Why constancy matters.
5. How to setup your email marketing automation.

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Show Notes

00:00

From the center of the universe, Toronto, Ontario, Canada. This is the SDM show with your host Rob Cairns. The SDM show focuses on business life productivity, digital marketing, WordPress and more. Sit back, relax, grab your favorite drink and enjoy the show here is Rob.

 

00:18

Everybody, Rob Cairns here, I’m the founder, CEO and Chief Creative, amazing ideas that stunning digital marketing. In today’s podcast, I am joined by my friend Jason Resnick, and we’re going to talk about something that’s really important to taste marketplace. And that’s your email list and email marketing automation. So grab a drink, sit back and relax and enjoy the conversation I had with Jason.

 

00:55

Hey, all Rob Cairns here, hope everybody’s having a great day. today. I’m sitting here with my friend Jason Resnick, and we’re gonna talk a little bit about email marketing. Jason, how are you doing today?

 

01:06

I’m doing well. Thanks for having me. I’m excited to be here.

 

01:09

Yeah, it’s always a pleasure. You’re such a good inspiration. And anybody who’s not following me on Twitter should? Because you tweet out great stuff in the space. So how did you get here? You’re welcome. How did you get into email marketing and into the space of what you’re doing now?

 

01:29

That’s funny. Yeah, I mean, I’ve never, I never classify myself as email marketer at all, I still call myself a web developer, because that’s what I love that’s ingrained in me. But for me, I’ve always been an observer or a lover of human behavior. And when I started with my career, and this is the late 90s, I flocked towards ecommerce. And this is pre Amazon. So like, you know, people were like, you want me to put my credit card, you know what, I’m not doing that, right. And so that was such an interesting challenge at that point in time where a lot of developers like, I’m not dealing with that, like, like, there’s too many moving parts there. And that’s a recipe for disaster. Whereas I was like, let me go, I want to go towards that. Because as developer, now you’re close to the bottom line. And if you can affect the business in a positive way, they’re, well, then you could have become an invaluable asset. But then it was like, I saw how email and the websites were disconnected a lot. And, and what I mean by that is, is like, your, your website should always recognize that there’s a customer, right? If the person sees things on the website that isn’t related to what they should know, the company should know about that person, because they bought from them, or they’re on a subscription with them or whatever. But the website, looks at them like some random anonymous person, then that doesn’t create a good experience. And that, for me, was always like a pet peeve, if you will. And I was using drip at the time. And this was going back six, seven years. And at that point in time, Infusionsoft was really the only wallet thing out there that was doing anything related to tying in your email subscribers data to being available to a website, drip allowed for this. And their API was really easy to work with. And so I started messing around with that. And so that was the genesis of me saying, Hey, I could make a huge impact by creating better experiences for the human beings that are using the internet and interacting cup companies on the web, to tie in their email, to their experience on the inbox, and then their experience in the browser. And so I’ve, for the most part, moved away from the web development side of things at this point in time, I have one client that I still do email, web development, but for the most part, most of my clients are email marketing and automation. So I sit more on the side of the automation side versus the writing and copywriting.

 

04:29

Yeah, which is the same side I sit on. And I think one of the things that many businesses are missing is, as far as I’m concerned, there’s only two things you want. One is your website. And the other is your email list. What are your thoughts on that

 

04:45

one? Yeah, I think so. It’s interesting because I think social media has and in a lot of ways you know, they say Every year they like email marketing is dead email marketing is dead doesn’t work go this way. It’s Tick tock, then it’s, you know, it’s Snapchat, its Twitter, its Facebook, whatever. And social media has a place in business. But I think that place is more for the awareness side. And you don’t own anything, you know, and we were just talking as we came on, you know, right before, like, at this point in time, Facebook’s down. So what, what about all your followers? How do you touch them now? Like, how do you let them know. And so, in this point in time, if you have an email list, you could actually send out an email saying, Hey, this is what’s happening, just in case you tried, you know, we’re in the same boat as you Facebook’s down, right. But if you don’t have that level of interaction through an email list, depending on the kind of industry that you’re in, you could be your whole business can be done, right? It could be in the dark, your customers, your leads, everybody could be in the dark, they’re not sure what’s happening, they just know that they can’t get access to you. Or, in the case of a lot of people, especially coming out of the pandemic, if, and I’m sure you you’ve seen this as well, as I have is that, you know, a lot of people were like, bored at home. And so like, they’re going to go on Instagram, they’re gonna go on Snapchat, and they get to go on tik tok, and create micro businesses on these platforms. Yeah, that platform gets sold, or they changed the rules or anything. At that could be for you. Right? So I like and I know that I’m not, this isn’t a saying that I have is but that I came up with rather. But it’s like, you don’t want to build your house on rented land. Right? Like, thank you own it, right? They own that. So figure out a way to cater to that need, if that’s where they are. But figure out a way that that email, when somebody submits an email, I use ConvertKit. But I have a backup of that email address as well. So if ConvertKit decides to fall off the planet, I still can, I can still reach out to this person. Right? So at the bare minimum, if you have an email address, you could still carry on that conversation. It’s like the old school Rolodex right. Now, if you if you have a way that you own, to be able to communicate to people and your business is still there.

 

07:34

No, I agree within, I’ll give you a real life example of the rented land problem. I have had this ongoing problem on Facebook for the last seven months, that every time I try and drop my own business domain into a post, Facebook comes back at me and says, this post has been blocked because you don’t meet community standards. And this has been going on and I’ve applied to have it removed Well, as you laugh, it’s gotten worse, I can no longer post any text on Instagram, which is the same ecosystem. I can post a picture, I can send a DM but the minute I put any words in with anything public, it bands that too. And, and my suspicion has been somebody has marked my posts to spam probably a competitor, I will bet money on and and which adds to it even more, because my domains blocked, I can no longer run Facebook ads for my business if I wanted to. Now fortunately for me, the Instagram Facebook ecosystem was like 1% of the leads I generate. So it’s not a big deal from that perspective. But that’s just a real life example. You mentioned you use ConvertKit. Before we get to, you know how to build a list. Why did you settle on ConvertKit versus any of the other multitude of platforms that are out there?

 

09:05

Yes, as I said, like, and I started, I started with email late, right? That was like, I’m not a regretful person by any stretch of the imagination. But the one thing that I do regret in my career is not starting email sooner. And so I started on MailChimp and then move to drip quite quickly. And that was mainly because just a lot of limitations in MailChimp. For me the philosophy of having your email list, your email address three times that you’ve been charged three times for me was ridiculous. Yeah. So I moved to drip and drip was fantastic. About a couple of weeks after I moved to drip, I heard of ConvertKit. And so I was like, Oh, interesting, and I was like okay, this lot of similarities between these two platforms. But because I had already built a lot of my website tied to drip, I wasn’t really too keen on unwrapping that package and re wrapping it with something else. So but I always kept an eye on ConvertKit. I always wanted to know what they were doing, how they were handling things. And just the feature set. And you know, then I learned a lot more about Infusionsoft and Active Campaign and just working with clients under different ecosystems. Yep. But when drip, when lead pages bought drip, that was a pivotal point for me, because I was like, Okay, I’m about to go. And I had some business ideas wrapped around what I wanted to do with drip. And to go back to that rented land thing. For me, I was like, I’m just going to hold back a second. Because I don’t know what LeadPages is going to do with drip. And drip was definitely catered towards. When Derek and Rob ran, it was catered towards the solopreneur, or the startup space engineer. You know, they were very targeted around that kind of person. The pages took over, they change the ecosystem. Basically, once, once Rob and Derek were officially done. They were like, okay, we’re going after Shopify, we’re going FTM comm we’re going to go after, this is our target market, and everybody else that was there, for better or worse, they decided to move away from the needs of those people. And the needs of those people are the needs of me, the needs of my clients, features that we cared about features that we needed. And ConvertKit was still there. And so it was a pretty easy move for me to decide where I needed to go. And ConvertKit still to this day, caters to me and the clients that I serve in the best way possible.

 

12:05

And that’s the key to find something the best way, have you looked at any of the email marketing software that’s built on a WordPress back end? So I’m thinking of things like fooling forums, I’m thinking about male poet, I’m looking at a newer player to the scene groundhog. Have you had a look of any of those products?

 

12:28

Yes. Yes, I have. And I think they’re all fantastic products by fantastic people. The thing that I don’t like about it is that it’s tied to your website like that. If you move away from WordPress, then what happens when you have a problem, right? And so I like, and this is just one man’s opinion. I like to keep things separate. And especially when it comes down to functions and stack of your second stack of your business as individual components of the business. Yes, that causes some complexities and integration problems and things of that nature. However, when it’s all in one, and you put all your eggs in that one basket, and that basket is too small and can’t grow for you, then it becomes a problem. Right? So Case in point I’m, I’ve switched off a WordPress two years ago for my site. And the reason why I did that was one performance to I didn’t need I at one point I had WooCommerce on there, add subscriptions, add a whole bunch of stuff on there was no longer needing that. And my site was just for my podcasting content at that point. I needed that to be super fast. And I didn’t need all the bells and whistles that came along with WordPress, essentially not saying that it couldn’t have optimized WordPress in a way. But the way that I work with my content, another platform called statamic was better for that because I wrote in markdown, I could just deploy files up I didn’t need to carry the database with me it was a static website done, end of story. And I had an email tied to that, well that would have been a problem for me. So that’s kind of how I look at that, that kind of stack but I see the benefits also with clients. Clients are like I don’t want to have to remember all these different platforms and how to log into things and all of that. So I get that but for me and how I run my business as well as how my clients you know the types of people that I attract and work with. They’d like some sort of flexibility in their business to not be locked into one thing

 

14:52

I got I understand it’s, it’s where do you draw that happy medium and and I know how hard The data. So I wanted to jump into a tweet that you put out this morning at the time of this recording, and you were sort of outlining five things you should do in your email marketing, and I read the tweet. And I thought, Jesus is a great point of discussion for today’s podcast. And we’ll start it off by number one, you say, you need to collect all addresses that people actually want to hear from you. You want to elaborate on that a little bit?

 

15:31

Sure. I’m not a fan of buying lists. I am a fan of opt in marketing. And you want to collect, like I said, you want to collect addresses of people that actually want to hear from you, meaning that they came to your website, or they came to your blog post, or they saw you on social media. And they want to get more information from you. And so it’s as simple as that. And, you know, if you start doing that in a repeatable way, you get to start to see where your opportunities are for your business and be able to communicate, because those people want to hear more

 

16:09

from you. And you think you need to offer them something like an opt in or a or a freebie to get them on that list, or do you think just saying, here’s my list is good enough?

 

16:21

No, you definitely have to exchange value, in whatever way could be a lead magnet could be something like that, it could be an email course, could be a free webinar and training on the video that you created, there has to be some value exchange, because I look at it like this, that the email addresses currency inboxes, the sacred place for a lot of people, you know, me and you, we probably get like hundreds of emails a day. But for a lot of customers out there, like they, if they get 12 emails in a day, that’s a lot for them, right. And so they don’t want to create spam coming into them or anything like that. So you have to have some thing of value. But it also is an indicator for you for your business, to know what people want to hear more about, right? So you could test different things like one month run, you know, a lead magnet to, you know, something, the next month run a lead magnet to something else. And if those two things solve different problems, and you had 100 coming in on month one, but you only had 10 coming in month two, well, what do you think is more important in the eyes of your potential customers?

 

17:34

Yeah, it tells you and then not show. And your second point on that was was learn how to tell stories. I think this is something that a lot of people don’t get in emailing or any marketing is to actually tell a story.

 

17:51

Yeah, yeah, I mean, and this goes back to what I was saying before, I’m a lover of human behavior. And humans been telling stories since the dawn of time. So telling a story, especially especially these days. Now, I do email marketing for, you know, on retainer for almost 10 clients, and I’ve done hundreds of different clients over the years. And so when you tell a story, it creates that connection with another human being that is on the other side of the, the wire, right? And when you learn how to tell those stories, and like, you don’t have to be a professional novelist. I’m not I by any stretch of the imagination. I was I’m definitely, you know, math and science brain. You know, I had a college professor once asked me on a paper that if, if English was my second language, and he gave me a D plus, you know, I’m not a novelist. But you if you tell a story in email, like you’re talking to a friend, and it’s something that is interesting to that person, it creates this sense of curiosity, it creates value. And it could be just a couple of sentences strong, then that hooks somebody in to keep reading. And that for me has been the biggest key to unlock the door of email marketing is to create those connections. So it’s human, to human connection points. To be able to unlock a lot of things, sales, referrals, testimonials, reviews, whatever you are looking for from your business. If you could tell stories. It makes that connection. So So much stronger.

 

20:01

I would agree with that. And it also, you know, we all like to read stories and share them. So that’s a really good point. And then you go to, and this, I think is a real Biggie, send valuable content journalist. And I want to expand that and say, the content, to me is sometimes even more important than the headline. What’s your thought on that one?

 

20:26

Yeah, because look, I’m with you on that, which is you can have the most click Beatty most attractive subject line, but if you’re not delivering on the content, then people are just going to start ignoring the headlines, right? So you know, you have to send content to your list that’s valuable to them, not valuable to you, if you if, like, I just ran through a 90 day challenge on YouTube, right, where I published a video for 90 straight days, burned myself out, I’ll be honest. But what I found out from that test is that just because of the sort of anonymous nature of YouTube, you can start to see what resonates with people, the types of content that resonates with people. And I’ll tell you right off the bat, going into the challenge, as well as in the challenge, I figured, hey, these things are going to pop they’re going to these are what people are going to be interested in. And these things, maybe not so much. Well, what I thought would pop didn’t, some of the other is more important. So I’m like, interesting. Okay, so that’s good to know. But that’s the VAT that’s valuable to them, right? And so to understand that on the email side of things, because on YouTube, I could just see, take a look at the analytics, right? But on the email side of things is creating content that is clickable, right? So if the click rate went up on something, then you can start to see Oh, that’s important. Okay, that’s what they want to hear more about, then write another email about that. And then another email about that and see how your list resonates with that. And that will actually tell you what’s valuable to them.

 

22:21

Yeah, I would agree with that. And then we kind of move on and this one also be, and it kind of drives me nuts that big corporations don’t do this, listen, and reply your subscribers when they email you. And one of the things that drives me nuts is you get an email from the big retail store. And the address says do not reply@domain.com. And for me that screams that you’re just a number Emily, really do not care about you. thoughts on that

 

22:51

one? Yeah, I would agree with you on that. I, I just think a lot of us that are probably the audience that here is that small business owners and the small business owner needs to be able to that’s like your door to the store. What is your email? If somebody reaches out to you just reply back, even if they’re not asking me questions, just say, Hey, thanks for sharing. I’m glad you replied. And maybe here’s another link to some helpful stuff based off of the email that they read. And they replied to so always being able to listen and engage your subscribers when they reach out to you because that To be honest, they will. And if you’re not emailing, because you’re afraid that people are going to be like, Oh, you know, you’re terribly wrong, or I don’t know why you think this way. How do you you know, like that imposter syndrome creeps in? Sure it does, when you plant your flag, and you have an opinion about something, or you’re telling, like an experiment results that you’ve got, and you send it out to the world. Yeah, there’s, there might be some pushback. But that is also valuable content, that you can then turn that back around and say, Hey, you know, let’s, let’s talk about this a little bit more, I’m curious to hear a little bit about your take on it be open to that, because that’s only gonna make you a better expert in the long run to and your email subscribers are gonna want to hear that as well.

 

24:23

I would agree with that. And then your last point is pretty self explanatory. Repeat the process. So I want to jump on to one other thing, and you kinda have Netflix that you posted this morning. And I think it’s really big deal. People need to learn how to segment their lists and to do it on a regular basis. Because my theory is there’s no point in sending an email to somebody that has a regular emails in 90 days. I like to take people like that and even before then, and throw them in what I call a long term, nurture, sequence and send him an email every so many days, it’s not even my regular content. What’s your thoughts about segmenting lists? And, and that kind of thing?

 

25:09

Yeah, I, I’m a huge advocate of segmenting the list. Wait. But where I differ based off of what you said, is one, I send emails almost daily anyway. And the and I say almost daily, basically I take off on Sundays. But the idea is that long term, but what I do with the people that haven’t engaged with me after a period of time is I send them to reengagement campaign, I don’t want to create noise. And that reengagement campaign is basically three emails that goes out and has encouraged them to click, and the last email says, If you, if you don’t want to hear from me, you don’t have to do anything. And I’ll just remove you and that’s fine. However, when it comes down to segmentation is, I like to try to figure out what the experience level is first. And this could be anything like if you’re selling TVs, versus providing development services, as a WordPress plugin developer, the people that are coming in to you have a certain experience factor with whatever it is that you are selling. So I would try to figure out what that level of experiences first, because that what you say to those people that are just barely touching the surface, is very different than those people that are really advanced and about to buy from you. Right? So if you could figure out what that is first, that’s what I would try to ask, I would try to figure out what that question is, you know, and ask your list that and then in the emails that I write it, that content shifts based off of that factor. And you know, I use liquid code, which is, you know, what ConvertKit is built on to basically say, hey, if your experience factor is beginner, say these three sentences, if it’s intermediate, say these three sentences, if it’s advanced, say these three sentences. And that’s all I that’s what I do. But that is a huge level of customization that in the inbox creates a better human connection.

 

27:32

I would agree. And I mean, as somebody say, interested in men’s sportswear, there’s no point in sending an email for women’s sportswear because that’s the starting interest, right? You can watch a customized experience there, too.

 

27:49

Yes, but I would argue here, if you ask them if they were interested in men’s sportswear, but then didn’t send them an email about women’s sports, where they didn’t say that they weren’t interested in women’s sportswear, it just said that they were interested in men’s. So what I would do in that case is, essentially, send emails like Black Friday, and all the holidays are about to come up. If you want to sell something, ask them if they’re interested in that, whatever it is that you want to sell. And then those people that do say that you send the emails to those people, the people that opted out, because that’s essentially what they did. If they didn’t show their interest. Maybe you send them one email, but you don’t bombard them for 14 emails over two week period.

 

28:37

No, I would agree. And then the other thing that’s kind of we were talking before we went to record that’s kind of convoluted this whole email marketing thing is Apple’s latest iOS update. And there’s been a lot of discussion of the impact or the nada impact. What is your take on that? How much has it impacted? Do open rates even matter anymore? That’s even a bigger discussion. And what’s your thoughts on that whole mess?

 

29:07

With respect to iOS? iOS is update. And, dear listener, if you aren’t aware of it, basically what iOS did was, they’re now blocking trackers, so you can’t get the open rates. You can’t get the geo geolocation can’t get these things, if that person opted into that protection. And I’ll be honest with you that this isn’t a new problem. This is a problem that had been there already. I mean, there’s platforms like hey.com. There’s software out there that blocks this stuff, specific clients that block this stuff, but what Apple is doing is because it’s such a huge market share, it’s like putting it on everybody’s desk at this point, right. And so for me, I think that depends On your space, it could drastically affect you. Like if you’re in DTC stuff and direct to consumer, and you’re a Shopify store, and you’re heavily on the Facebook ad side of things. And all of those sort of components, yeah, you’re probably going to be affected in some way. For better or worse, whatever. For me, I look at it like this. And it goes back to kind of like my core. And I have a, I have a saying, in nurture kit, which is my company that says, when she email lists, like humans, amazing transformations happen. And what that really means is that if you’re relying on open rates to make your decisions, that’s the wrong metrics to be making, it should be on engagement. And engagement can be a sale, it can be a click, it can be a reply. And that’s the human aspect, the Open, open, I mean, software opens it to the human may never even see it, right. And that’s the problem with the iOS update is that Apple is essentially opening emails, disabling the trackers, and then passing it along to the human. And so that for me is like, Okay. His email opens important anymore. I mean, you asked the question, for me, it wasn’t as important before, because, yes, you have to open an email in order to click on something and consume the email. But for me, as a business, open rates only tell one story, if the open rate is less than 10%, then you know, you were caught and flagged as like a spam email. And that was by software, right? So you should know that before you press send out to the recipient list Anyway, you should test these things. Buy from the perspective of iOS, and all of the things moving from today into the future. It’s just take a look at your business and your list if you start to see fluctuations in your open rates. Okay, but what are the clicks are telling you what is what is some of the other metrics that are actually happened? Like when you send emails, what was it before today, and what is it after, right and like, make your decisions based off of that open rates, again, goes back to before you can have the best subject line. And that’s all an open rate really does, it tells the subject line if you don’t actually have the conversions off of that open, which are the clicks, the sales and everything else, the open rate doesn’t matter. Nobody wants an open rate of 100%, and no sales, I’d much rather have an open rate of 15% and 17. Sales?

 

32:45

No, I would agree with it. And the other thing you kind of draw to is, and we’ve sort of talked about in there is open rate is not my favorite metric. But you need to know all your other metrics. And I can’t tell you how many times I’ve walked into a business owner and said, we start talking about email campaigns. And I said, you know, how many culture? Oh, no, I just send out 500 emails. Do you know how many people are calling you based on your email? Oh, I don’t know. And, and what people need to understand is the only way you can optimize your processes is to actually know what your all your metrics are. And that, to me, for a small business owner is a big problem, because a lot of them don’t pay attention to stuff like that.

 

33:31

Yeah, absolutely. And that’s, I mean, I find the same thing that you found. And you know, when I when I start thinking to the numbers, and they’re like, Oh, well, we’ve got a shopping cart abandonment campaign. Okay, that’s great. Awesome. What is the conversion on that? I don’t know. Like, we’re just sending the emails out. Okay. Well, let’s, let’s start there. And let’s track what that looks like. And, and work backwards. Because to know what, just because you’re doing them, the mechanics of it doesn’t mean that it actually works. And it could hurt if you’re just doing your thing, because I don’t know about you. But if I find people like that scenario, where they’re, that they’re trying these things out, shopping, cart, abandonment, or landing page abandonment, and then they’re trying all of these automated lead scoring, click trigger kind of automations and all that stuff. And then when you dig in, like subscribers are getting like seven emails a day. And I’m like, well, that’s not a great experience. And you wonder why email marketing isn’t, isn’t working. That’s why because you have all of these things that are work like you have set up, but they’re not aware of what’s going on with each other. And you know, blocking things and you’re not thinking through things or even tracking things to know if it’s working or not. And then so you have a whole bunch of stuff going on, and you don’t really know what’s going on. And the humans on the other side are just embark bombarded with a whole bunch of email. But yeah, they’re probably you might get a clicker too. It’s not a great experience.

 

35:06

No, I need any other thing people don’t do on the building the campaign side, if it’s actually automated, if they don’t put checks in between so I’m what I mean by that is Person A goes into a campaign. And there’s 10 steps in that campaign. A lot of marketers cannot tell you where that person is in that campaign. And the way I built my now with things like cags, built in the software in other ways is I can actually tell where people are in that campaign. And how do you measure if you don’t know where people are? Or where they’re stuck?

 

35:45

That’s exactly right. Yeah, you got to put the, I call them just like mile markers, you have to put biomarkers in there to know where they are. Because, like you said, if you have a 10 step campaign, if people are starting to convert on Step seven, well, how do we get to step from? How do we get to that seven to be step three? And if you don’t know that, and you don’t know where that converting, then you’re gonna have people going through 10 steps all the time?

 

36:16

That’s right. I knew and you can’t measure which steps within that campaign are working and which aren’t? Because you don’t know where people are. Right? So that’s, I think it all comes down. Jason, the metrics, I mean, people, I say this a lot in this business, whether it’s email, whether it’s marketing, whether it’s ads, it’s you have to know your metrics and the right ones, if you want to optimize what you’re doing, right? Yeah,

 

36:40

absolutely. I mean, what I try to encourage all clients, and anybody that I really talked to is set yourself up for your future self. track things now, because it’s easy enough to just set up, like you said, either a tag or custom field or something like that with whatever platform that you’re in with the thing that you might think you might need later simple case is, which lead magnet did they come into First, we know they came in through seven different lead magnets, we can see that, but which one was first, and record that, because that is what’s going to be used, potentially later on to run an ad to write because if you have seven different lead magnets, and you have one lead magnet that converts 45 45% of the customers, well, let’s run an ad to that one, not the one that’s converting to, right. And so if you start to think about your future self, and the questions that you might want to ask yourself into the future, today, you can even just set those tags up while you’re building out your campaigns now, and then take that next step in the in the future to say, Okay, now that I have some of this data, what what do I need to do to leverage the data that I’m getting to further the business?

 

38:11

Yep, I would agree. I mean, it’s an if you set it up now, the proper way for moving forward, then you don’t have to go back and redo stuff and put yourself in that position to start with, right? I know a lot of people, I find even marketers, they throw it in, they get it working. And then they say, Oh, go back and optimize it later. No, no, no, no. Get it working properly now, so you can use that talk to mice in the future? Yep. I think that’s that’s the big deal. This has been a great conversation. Jason. If somebody wants to get a hold of you and talk email, what’s the best way to get?

 

38:49

Yeah, I mean, I’m always open to a great conversation on Twitter, @rezzz on Twitter. Or you can visit my website https://nurturekit.co/. and drop into my email list there. I email on nurture kit side of things five times a week, basically every weekday, no longer than two minutes. And they’re actionable emails that is either email marketing and automation, or how to write better emails.

 

39:19

Thanks, Jason, for your time, you have yourself an amazing day. Thanks. You do? Thank you. A very special thank you to Jason Resnick for joining me on today’s edition of the SDM show. I really enjoyed Jason’s insights and tips on email marketing automation. Thank you, Jason. Thank you for listening to this edition of the SDM show. This podcast is brought to you by Stunning Digital Marketing. For Information on Stunning Digital Marketing and Rob Cairns, please go to stunningdigitalmarketing.info . This podcast is dedicated to Rob’s late father Bruce Cairns. Keep your feet on the ground and keep reaching for the stars make your business succeed. Bye for now.

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