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Episode 492 Running a Busy WordPress Agency With Cami McNamara



Show Summary

This podcast features an interview with Cami McNamara, a WordPress agency owner, discussing time management strategies. **Key topics** include handling client requests (primarily via email and a task management system), scheduling (limiting meetings and using scheduling tools), project management (time blocking and utilizing project management software), and maintaining work-life balance (incorporating self-care and setting boundaries). McNamara also shares her experiences using various tools and her approach to client communication, including newsletters and Substack. Finally, the discussion touches upon business promotion and the importance of recurring revenue streams.

Show Notes

Rob Cairns here. And in today’s show, I have my good friend Cami McNamara with me. Hey Cami, how are you?

Hi, how are you? How are you today?

doing good.

me too.

It’s getting to be December almost at the time of this record and it’s starting to get cool in Canada and uh it’s kind of dreary out there. We’re just above freezing today. So there you go.

Yeah, I I it’s getting colder in Seattle and for me it’s the day before Thanksgiving. So it’s one of those crazy trying to wrap up everything.

And you know what’s going to happen? Some clients can have an e can see at

Oh, 100 a.m. or Black Friday or you know how that goes.

Yeah,

I won’t be far from a computer even though I’ve taken a little time off.

Oh, me neither. Um, one of the things I wanted to talk about is you run a pretty busy agency. You maintain I forget you’re up over 400 websites or something. Uh,

no, I’m I’m more closer to 200, but I all my clients are pretty active and uh so yeah, I’m pretty busy and I’m an agency of one so it’s just me.

Yeah. And I’m and I think I’m on the security side and that side I’m up around 425 or 426. I have to do it count again. But I’m up

that’s impressive.

And you know those numbers to throw it out there and make anybody feel bad, it takes time and it takes work. And you and I I’ve been in business for 20 plus years. So,

yeah. But what I thought we’d talk about is a little bit about how we manage our time kind of going around that because time’s a a big deal. So, where I was going to start was you handle your client request. Do they get to email you? Do they get to text you? Do they go to a portal? Do they go to a a ClickUp portal? How do you handle that?

I handle all of it through email. And you know, having been in business as long as I have, I’ve tried everything. Like I did Zindex for a while and

uh a few things like that, but I really use uh Google or Gmail as my primary tool. So an email comes in and I create a task with it and I use an add-on called tasks board and that kind of gives me a Trello like board for all my incoming tasks and I am a time blocker so everything goes on the calendar

and that’s how I keep track of it. I they can text me for an emergency but not for a regular request because then it just ends up forgotten because it’s not in my system.

And do you run off your cell phone or do you have a separate business line? How do you how do you cope with that?

I run off my cell phone. Yeah, I run off my cell phone. I’ve been doing it for so along. That’s just how it how I roll with it. So,

yeah,

I use an app that will give a different message for my friends who are in my contacts than it does for my outgoing Yeah. if somebody leaves a voicemail. So,

yeah, one of the things I did is in the last year I ran off my cell phone for 14 years. But the problem with that is the minute you put your cell phone number on your website, your cell phone gets spammed.

And it was driving me up the wall. But for a sake of 25 bucks a month, Canadian, I went to a VIP light as well. And I don’t even have a phone for it. It goes to an app and it it does that. It has an auto attendant.

Um, and uh after 5:00 the calls go right to voicemail. It will take text me. It will take texts as well.

And I generally tell most of my clients, a don’t text me after hours. Unless it’s a dire emergency, that’s a website down. I forgot to do a pricing change. Doesn’t qualify. I will tell you that now. Not my not my issue at that point. Um

unless you’re unless you’re paying for premium service or you want to pay for premium to get it done. That’s your other option. Um and I’m like you. I’ve tried everything under the sun to get clients support requests. I’ve tried email. I’ve tried um I don’t like to take text. for support requests. It’s just not working.

Yes. It just kind of gets lost in the shuffle.

It does. Unless it’s an emergency. Um I got a couple of special clients that

there’s always a few that are exempt. You know that, but they don’t abuse it.

Um I’ve tried a I’ve tried help desk portal. I’ve tried that multiple times. My clients do not like it. They will not use it. So I now run a bit of a hybrid. I run a help test portal. out of a a WordPress site that nobody has access to but me. He practiced out and the clients just continue to email me. So, I’ve gone that route and I’m like you. I time I time block. It’s got to go on the calendar.

It’s got to go on the calendar. Yeah.

And I I think that’s important. And people will say to you, well, I don’t you don’t have any time today to book calls. And I’m like, yeah, I know. I have work to do.

Yeah. I I really have limited my meeting time, you know, over the years. I learned quickly that if I opened up my calendar, I would have nothing but meetings all day and have no time to work at all. So, yes,

I think I have less than I have somewhere between six and seven hours available for meetings each week and that’s it.

Yeah.

Do you let your clients schedule right into your meetings or into your calendar?

I keep it I keep it in lockdown because if I put it on my website then I get a third party vendors reaching out to me and booking my time.

I use Calendarly. And so if a client needs a meeting, I just shoot them an email with my, you know, whatever 15 minutes, 30 minutes, whatever I think they might need, and they book it that way.

Yeah. It’s interesting when you mention that because on my website, I do have the option for a 15-minute meeting, and the vendors, that’s not enough time for them. They don’t even

you know, I think I have one somewhere buried in there, but it’s not easy. easy to find. So,

y

um but I that’s helpful too because I kind of sometimes I will answer a phone for answer the phone for a a call that I don’t know on occasion. Um and I like to vet them through a phone call before we even book an actual, you know, meeting to know what they need. Sometimes I’m just not the right person right out of the gate.

No, I don’t want to waste my time with that. Um, and I do the same. Like if a client wants a 60 or a 90minute meeting, I’ll send them a link. And I tend to use Tidy Cow, which is the AppSumo.

Yeah, it works great. I was eyeballing that. I know that that’s an app sumo uh

by that’s a pretty good deal.

I’ve been on it for few years and they keep improving it and it’s just it’s got Zoom integration, it’s got Meet integration, it’s got even teams integration. Now they’re moving to some group scheduling. So it makes sense for me. It works. It’s just kind of

But I think that’s the key is to limit your meetings and productivity matters.

Do you do you do anything else when you’re managing your schedule a little bit?

Well, um, so in my time blocking, I have a a pretty I I mean I it’s from day to night what time slots I have for what type of work. So I will have one day that’s working on one project. I will have one day that focuses on maintenance requests. So when the client is reaching out to me, I can say, “Yeah, I’m going to do this on Tuesday because that’s my day for it, right?” Y

and um Thursdays I am in a BNI group. So I do business networking international I have off and on for 14 years. So that’s my meeting day. Thursday is always a meeting day. And I just try to

keep my tasks to a minimum because I know I’m going to be distracted all day with with meetings. So that it kind of when you do have an all day meeting schedule like that takes a lot out of you like you end up kind of tired because you’re on and you’re meeting with people the whole time. So that’s kind of easy stuff day. But

yeah, my rule of thumb is I take no meetings on Mondays and I take no scheduled meetings on Fridays.

Fridays. Yeah.

And and the reason for that is Mondays I find I’m dealing with emergencies from the weekend or rush requests or stuff. There’s always stuff that

or leftovers. Leftovers. Yeah.

The reason I don’t take them on Fridays and by the way emergencies bar for a course is I find that about noon on Friday, most business owners are checked out.

And I I’ve got a number of retail clients and they go into the weekend, but they’re

I find most owners by the time I have Friday afternoon, they’re checked out and done and they don’t even want to um they don’t even want to kind of you say something that goes like over their head and it’s just not worth it.

Yeah, I’m I’m close to the same. I have one time slot on Monday for one meeting that is 30 minutes and it’s just there for the that kind of emergency thing or if somebody reaches out on a Friday

and um I don’t meet on Fridays either. That kind of gives me an out to tell them I can meet you Monday at 2:30.

Yeah, that’s a good idea. Um what do you do for keeping track of note for example for clients? Do you use like a word doc? Do you use a note takingaking package?

Yeah. How do you facilitate it?

When I have meetings with clients I use a tool called supernormal which is a a notetaker an IIA noteaker. Um and I use a combination of notion and uh Google uh Google Docs. um to keep track of all of my notes for clients. So, every client has a Google Drive folder where I keep a bunch of stuff. Um, but I have been working on trying to figure out how to make Notion a great place for that. I I really have enjoyed working with Notion, but it’s such a free form product that it’s hard to get it.

I’ve even spent quite a bit of money having somebody build something for me and it’s lovely. Um, but It’s so much work to keep track of it. I don’t know that it’s ever going to be something I put to great use.

Yeah, I find I I use Notion and I find I use it for tracking projects. Um this is where this is at. This is where this is at. And I’ll give the client if it’s a project access to the notion board. So that sort of takes care of that. And truthfully, 90% of the time they never even look at it. They can’t be bothered. I tried making client portals once and I had had three clients out of, you know, 50. Check it out. And I’m like, I’m not going to convert the rest of them.

Um, if it’s a if it’s a request and it needs a ticket, as I mentioned, I have an internal ticketing system. I just kind of deal with that. Um, in terms of notes, um, where I keep a lot of my notes is an app. It’s called Dopplin. Dopplin is it’s a free opensource note uh Microsoft one note dealer as far as I’m concerned.

So the cool thing with Joplin is you can take your database and throw it wherever you want. So you can throw it on Google Drive or on a one drive or on a Dropbox account, it doesn’t care. And as long as you point to it and authenticate it, you’re good to go. And that’s

Oh, that’s that’s great. Yeah. I’m all about keeping notes. Like if I don’t have notes,

you know, Whenever I finally get to working on what they need, man, that note is my road mapap.

Yeah. The other thing I do is I record all my meetings. So 90% of my meetings are Zoom. Some are on the phone and even the phone ones get recorded. And then

what do you use for your phone recording?

Um whatever is built into Android right now. You um but uh Zoom recordings and I actually I actually will send the client a I’ll throw it up on my YouTube channel and just hide it and then send them a link and say, “By the way, here’s a recording of the meeting.” And then when the client and I’ve had cases in past where clients have said, “I didn’t say that.” “Oh, yes, you did. Here’s the snippet out of the meeting.” They said,

“Check the transcript.”

Wrote the transcript. Yeah. Yeah. So, that helps. Um, you deal with um as a as a agency one, how do you deal with multiple projects and multiple overlapping deadlines? When brunch time hits,

well, I stay in close communication with my clients in terms of if I’m falling behind, I’ll fess up and let them know. But most of the time, the client hasn’t gotten me all the information on time. And in my contract, if

if I expect something and they’re three weeks late, it pushes our due date out three weeks.

Yep.

So, um I do have that little bit of wiggle room there. Um I have routinely been working on anywhere from 12 to 22 projects at once at any given time time. And that’s without maintenance. That’s website builds. And it’s just I’m so used to working that way that um

uh you know I just am spreading my time out amongst different tasks and I have

it usually takes me about 8 to 12 weeks to build a website for somebody.

So So, I have it spread out enough to where I can have different people at different places. And I use this tool called manifestly. So, it’s manifest. Is the URL. And it’s kind of a it it’s kind of a project uh task tool that I use outside of any of my note takingaking and stuff just to give me a clear picture on where I’m at with my projects. Probably like what you’re doing with notion.

Yeah. You got to do something. Because if not, you know what happens?

You got to have the overall. Yeah.

Yeah. And you got to work on stuff as you go. I think where a lot of people who do project make the mistake is, “Oh, it’s due on Friday, so I’ll start it Thursday at noon.” And then they wonder why Friday morning. It’s like the kid who’s got that big assignment and the teacher gave them three weeks to do. And there’s a reason why the teacher gave you three weeks to do the assignment, right, Carrie?

Yeah. Well, and you know, I stopped trying to meet milestones like in one setting. and I will work in a time increment. So, I’m gonna say, “Okay, I’m gonna work an hour on that project today, and then I’ll share what I got done.” And maybe I didn’t meet the the milestone, but I chipped away at it. And that that’s more important to me than finishing something completely in one setting because then everybody else has been ignored.

Yep. So, I have to tell you, I know you have a really good newsletter and anybody who’s in the agencies, but they should better check it out like now.

Thank you.

But you’re welcome. Um, do your client are most your clients getting that newsletter?

My clients get a client newsletter. So, I I update my clients uh monthly with a newsletter from me. And then the habits WP newsletter that I send out is for other agency and owners, freelancers,

just anybody who’s trying to form better habits. as a business owner. Um, and the reason I started doing the newsletter is because I, you know, I’ve taken some wonderful courses from people that have really made a difference in my business.

That’s super hard to find time to take a full-blown course, right? Like, you know, it like supposed to only take you like maybe two months to do it and it takes me a year because I’m fitting in the time to implement it. And uh, that’s why I thought about, you know, what could I do to help people? And giving them one habit a week to focus on to make their business better is something that you have a better chance of completing and learning from.

One of the things I do from a newsletter perspective, I’ll share it. I have a client newsletter and I think any agency who doesn’t, they better start one because

yes,

I think where people fall, especially on maintenance plans, care plans, security care plans, fall short to they don’t communicate. So then you go to renew and the client says, “I haven’t heard from you in 6 months, so goodbye.”

I think that’s a mistake. Out of sight, out of mind’s not a good idea. Um I’m in the process of reaching out to all my clients individually and saying, “Okay, the new year’s coming up. How can I help you?”

So I I’ll do that, too.

I think it’s huge. And what when uh my my parents passed away a couple of years ago, and they were both kind of uh fell into the last part of their lives at the same time. They died within 11 months of each other.

And but my newsletter was an update about my parents for probably three or four years where I was going down to help and visit them and I would send a picture

and it humanized me and my par my clients were really invested and uh in knowing about my folks and I I think it was it was healing for for me to share what I was going through.

Um, but it it I think it it made my clients and I closer to share this is my reality. You know, I’m working as hard as I can to but you know, this weekend I’m going to see my folks and I’m not available and everybody was so understanding.

Yeah. And and as people know, I’ve gone through my share bit of health challenges and

yes,

as you know, I very often on my personal blog will will share where I’m at with the diabetes challenges, where I’m at with the wound challenges, and I’ll actually tweet and and social those out because I think it’s it’s just it’s just me and it’s not just and I’m not looking for sympathy. It’s people ask me all the time, man, how are you doing? What’s going on? Like,

you’ve had challenges, how you feeling? And and I share those quite and I’m pretty transparent like

I think people are are sometimes afraid to share the human side of themselves and we’re all just machines pushing out the work. But um you know your clients have lives too and I think it uh it can be something that uh actually brings you closer as individuals to just be honest and open.

And the other thing I do besides client newsletter is I have two um substacks now. I used to do a

Oh, cool.

I used to do them as newsletters and then about three months ago, I decided I want to put these into another orbit and Substack has its own community. So, both my podcast uh newsletter and my what I call my techie information newsletter. So, it’s business tips. This is how you can help. This is what’s going on out there. This is what’s to be careful. I moved those both to substacks about uh two months ago and that’s gone really well actually. So,

that’s good to hear. Yeah.

So, so I’ve taken that approach just because I’m trying to piggyback on the Substack community. So, what I would encourage anybody to do is create a Substack, create a newsletter, and stay in touch with people because that’s the engagement value. It’s not just all the white noise. Right.

Right. Well, and so many small business owners that I work with, you know, it’s intimidating to them to even think about having to formulate a newsletter.

Yes.

But at the same time, I’m like, the most important thing you can grab from your website from is somebody’s email address because that is going to end up being a touch point for you versus you know an Instagram uh post that you might do that only a portion of people might see. Um so anyway

no I I agree with you and we all know the problem with Meta’s platform as a whole right in terms of visibility and algorithm I um I have to tell you Meta is not my favorite platform so Are you on Tik Tok?

Uh, no I am not.

Tik Tok? No. That might be a good place for you if you’re on Substack.

Yeah. So, so my latest favorite platform is Blue Sky, but that’s the point.

Oh, me too. Me too. I’m all in on Blue Sky. I love it. Yeah.

It’s great. It’s great for developers. I’m not so sure it’s great for business owners at this point in time. Like to be fair,

yeah, I’m looking at it primarily as a place to connect with fellow designers and um Um, yeah, I love it right now. It’s like the early days of Twitter.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, so that kind of kind of sort of outlines that. Um, how do you handle um maintenance tasks? You say you have a day a week you do maintenance tasks. Do you do like web updates for clients on a weekly basis and kind of how

Yeah.

So I in my care I’ve been doing care plans since 2015 and I rolled it out slow so I knew how much I could handle. I used manage WP. It’s still my favorite tool for that. I use it. I use the cloning tool a lot and um but I like the the reports that go out. I’m just very used to that. Um so Mondays I I and Fridays I get into manage WP and do a whole bunch of updates. But in between when I’m getting just a maintenance request from an existing client, I’ll either do that on a Tuesday or a Wednesday. I alternate. Um and you know, I’ll just go through my list. Most of the things my clients have me do are small, right?

Yeah.

And um you know, it could be updating a a menu item or um I have a health club that needs a lot of class updates and stuff like that. And you know, if somebody needs more than just an hour uh every week, then I put them on a retainer for that.

Yeah, I agree with it. Do um do you uh do your own backups or do you let your host the host do the backups? And do you host the websites for your clients or do you

I do I have a reseller account through a small company called MDD hosting. It’s basic C panel and there’s a backup running there. Uh Jet Backups is on that, but I use manage WP to do the backups.

Um And so that has always worked really well for me. Um, if I have any problems doing a restore there, you can always download the full backup and do it the oldfashioned way.

Yeah, manage manage WP is a GoDaddy company. Correct. If I recall right,

it is now. When I started using it, it wasn’t. It was independent, but it is a GoDaddy company, but it’s still running as it did um, you know, back when it was privately owned.

Yeah. I’ve been I’ve been main WP user for a long time. So that’s

yeah and you know I I have that small fa I have a small Facebook group of web designers and we often talk about this main WP is like you know equal to the amount of users that are in manage WP and we’ve all tried like WP umbrella I I don’t care what somebody’s tool is if you’re a web designer like we are that is a great uh way to have recurring income and I only wish I did it earlier.

Yeah, I would agree with you. It’s funny you talk about that. And I would rather actually do security maintenance care plans than I would do dev work from scratch. And people laugh and say, “Why?” And I said, “Because with care plans, there’s no scope creep. You know exactly what you’re going to do. You know exactly what you’re going to charge. You know exactly what the routine is. There’s none of this, oh, I need these 50 million changes, and by the way, I’m not going to pay for I mean, beyond bad clients, that’s another story, but

but there’s none of that, right? It’s just kind of you just do it, you get it done, you move on.

Well, yeah. I I would say I don’t I like doing the care plan stuff. It’s a It can get a little tricky if, let’s say, a whole bunch of clients are on the same host and they all have a problem.

Y

um but I’m a creative, so building a website, building websites is my passion. That’s what I really love to do.

Um, and I also am a people person, so I really like that I can offer them a care plan and take care of those items for them. That’s why, yeah, I know everybody’s very scared about AI and how it’s going to affect, you know, people can build a website 90 seconds, you know, but they don’t have they want a person to deal with problems. Um, they don’t want to do it themselves. So, until it can totally take care of all of those things, I I think we’re going to be fine.

Yeah. And the other thing with all this going on, you’re busy. I’m busy. Um do do you have a self-care routine built in that kind of work?

I do. I do. I um today I’ve already been on two walks. I walk with a girlfriend every Tuesday or Wednesday uh in my neighborhood and then I walk my dogs every day. And I live near a beach in Seattle, so it’s beautiful. And I really like try to take time to appreciate the water, the mountains, even the rain.

Um, so that’s part of it. Uh, I like to travel when I can and you know, I like to spend time with friends, so I just try to carve out time uh with people I enjoy.

Yeah, I um I find I walk every day pretty well for an hour a day. I haven’t been out yet today. It’s been one of those, but I will be after. after we’re done, probably going for a walk before or after dinner. It also keeps the weight down. It’s good for you.

It does. And it’s not screen time, you know. I I wish I had uh you know, I don’t have any like hobbies um other than work. Uh but, you know, getting outside and enjoying just reading a book on the beach or taking time away from screens is so important.

And since we’re talking about time, Andrew, How do you deal with vacations or trips away? Do you are you like a lot of entrepreneurs where you lug your laptop and every request that comes in you just deal with or

Well, I take my laptop, but I start telling my clients via newsletter or email or, you know, I have a monthly newsletter, but I might have a special bulletin, right?

And when I go to New Orleans, I start telling my clients at least two months in advance, hey, going to New Orleans You all know what that means

because you know they’ve been my client. And if you’re a new client, what that means is that I’m not working

unless your website is dead to the world

and I’m not and and it not only that if you have a problem, I may be four miles I may have walked because we don’t rent a car. We’re off walking. I may not be able to get back to my laptop, you know, for couple hours or whatever. And um So that’s what I do. Um, and I only take those types of vacations uh once a year and I usually am only gone for about five or six days.

Yeah.

So um

we do a lot of weekend trips. So we’ll whip down to Niagara. We’ll whip down to uh an area called Sand Banks. We’ll whip around town. And on those trips, I tell people, I mean, I’ll go out for the day and I’ll take my laptop with me and I’ll throw it in the trunk of a car like Guess what I tell people outright? If I’m out all day, it better be a dire emergency. There’s none of this.

So, I got to do this. I need this. No. Your website better be burning that.

Yeah. I’ll I’ll make sure that my emails are my email box. Maybe not zero, but it’s close before I go on vacation.

Yep.

And I’ll put the I put the laptop in the hotel safe. And I only get it out if somebody has an emergency because I really am trying to make myself also not constantly check email. and

things like that. Like I will check email off my phone at the end of the day.

Um but you we really need to have true breaks every now and then.

Um the other thing we didn’t talk about which is really interesting and I find most business owners have a problem with you’re out hustling business. You’re not doing work for clients. You’re busy. I’m busy. But what do you do about the long-term promotion of you? your business on a regular basis and do you build that into your time management?

Uh, yes, I certainly do. So, I I’m a member of BNI, so every week I’m at a meeting talking about myself and and that’s solely about getting new business. Um, that gets me a lot of local business.

Um, but I also I have a couple of different spots on my calendar for one is an early morning session on working on my own systems and My new tool is to use chat GPT and I’ll feed a problem that I’m having with my system in there and get feedback on ways to change it.

Okay,

so that has been very useful tool. And then Ann Marie Gil is a fellow web designer here in the Seattle area and she and I have been very close for many years. We went on a women’s retreat that Kim Doyle, I don’t know if you.

I know. Kim and I are good friends. I know Kim well.

Good. So, I went to Costa Rica and stayed with Kim and we did a women’s retreat down there. Ann Marie and I did. It was very It was wonderful. I had had the best time. And Ann Marie and I came back from that about a year ago and we co-work every Friday

and we work on our own businesses during that time. So, my habits WP newsletter is born from that. Um, um time together and she’s launching something on her own and so we kind of do it it in a supportive way but I have always built in time in my calendar to work on my own business. You have to do it

um if you’re and it could be time to work on your newsletters or you know in my case it could be signing up to go to a networking event those types of things.

Yeah but I I agree with you have to go to those events. I do them but I have a standard 10 to 11 Eastern every day that I block unless I have a doctor’s appointment or a networking event or an emergency that is in my calendar to basically say I’m working on my stuff during this time and and the other thing I do as you don’t this podcast I mean that’s one of the reasons I do I do it right it’s

it’s about business promotion and uh

podcasts are a lot of work Yeah. And

it’s too much work some days. But I was saying to uh somebody I was talking to Joe Cababona this week. He may or may not know using

Well, I don’t know him personally, but I follow his blogs and I’ve taken a couple of his like online courses about podcasting.

Yeah. And Joe and I was saying to Joe in a a recording we did for future episode that uh my average podcast is five to six hours for me. So that’s including promotional work and it’s worth it but it’s just it’s work and you got to do the business promotions. I think where a lot of business owners suffer is

they’re feast or famine. So I’m not busy so let’s promote and that’s the wrong time. It’s easier to get clients when you’re busy when not when you’re not busy.

Well and I also feel that um coming from a place that you believe in yourself and you believe and you just tell yourself I’m going to get new business that mindset does a lot on its own, right? And um and also building that care plan business where you have recurring revenue takes a little bit of the pressure off on how many new projects you need to bring in each month.

Yeah. So, so true. It’s so true. And that’s why I think having a care plan is so important is reoccurring revenue matters. It makes life easy.

It does.

Hey, Cammy, I really enjoyed this chat today. Thanks. for sharing some of your posts.

I so enjoyed this and I can’t wait to meet you in person someday.

Oh, it’s going to happen one day. If I ever and I’m trying to avoid the drama, but if I ever get on block.wordpress.org so I can actually log in and go to a word camp because

Yeah. Well, I’m going to press comp in um in Arizona in April. I got my ticket for that and uh that’ll I’m trying to support the alternatives. Um

yep. But yeah, let’s hope that WordPress stuff gets worked out.

Yeah, I was supposed to go to WordPress Canada this year in Ottawa and uh I had bought tickets, I had booked trips, I had booked hotel, I had done it all and then my health took a dive.

My health had other plans. I’m glad you’re healthy.

Yeah, thank you. If somebody wants to get a hold of you to talk about WordPress design, how’s the best way?

Well, there’s many ways to get a hold of me. Um I would love for them to sign up for my news letter at habitshwp.com.

I can be found at webcami.com. Uh that’s my main business website. And then I have a Facebook group called webcammy cafe. You can s uh search that on Facebook. It’s a website, too. But um I only have like 175 web designers in there, but they’re all wonderful people and we network and it’s always going to kind of be a smaller group. Um so it’s not the admin bar, which I love and use all the time. But it’s kind of more of a networking place than than just a typical Facebook group. So

yeah, thanks Cami. Have yourself a wonderful day and take care of yourself.

Thank you.

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