Episode 384 Entrepreneurship and Freemius With Vova Feldman

Morning Everyone, Rob Cairns here and today I am here with my guest Vova Feldman from Freemius, How are you today?

I’m doing pretty good, a little sick, but I think today I’m feeling better, really excited to be on the show Rob and and bring value to your audience.

Now I’m gone. Yeah, I’m glad to have you. And you are coming to us from a tough spot of. The world right now.

That’s what then you say.

That that’s right. So we’ll just leave it at that. So I wanted to talk to you before we jump into what we’re going to talk. About how did. You end up in. The WordPress space I was like to ask that question cause everybody’s got an interesting journey. How did you end up there?

Yeah, it’s a great question. So I feel that I was kind of pushed to that ecosystem. I had a side thing that I it was a little sass that I was offering for free for people that wanted. To have rating solution on their website. And over the years, I started to receive requests from people saying, hey, I want to use it in WordPress, but like I don’t know how to take that JavaScript basically and mix it into my WordPress and I got you know, many of those requests eventually realized. Well, let’s check what workers is. And it led me eventually to develop a plugin that was wrapping that service into a plugin so people can use it in WordPress. So that’s my story basically with WordPress.

Yeah, that’s that’s really cool. It isn’t it? How so many of us have found ourselves in WordPress professionally by trying to solve our own problems or our friend’s problem, and then we realize what a great open source ecosystem we have, and we end up staying. Isn’t that so true?

Absolutely. Absolutely. I I I was actually. I don’t think I was very aware about the concept of, you know, an open source project and how things are working. And like the the community behind it. So it it really opened up my eyes basically.

And we do, we do have a pretty vibrant community. You’re high in the community for what you do. I’m high in the community for what I do, and I think we’re really blessed to have the community. We do. Yeah, we got some problems. There’s no question about that one. And we’ve had a few lately, but what what large community doesn’t?

Yeah, absolutely. I think if you if you don’t have problems, it’s not interesting enough. You need to have. Some drama, right?

Yeah, that’s so true. So let’s jump into the topic. We really wanted to talk about and that was entrepreneurship. You’re a lifelong entrepreneur. Have you ever worked for somebody in a corporate environment? And why entrepreneurship? For you.

Yeah, I did have a a few regular jobs, if you can call it that way. One of them, probably the biggest was my military experience. So when people think about military in Israel, we immediately think, you know, especially right now, you know. People running with guns, but the military is much bigger. You know, there are many roles. I was running with the keyboard and coding so. I think that. I was that there are many departments, divisions et cetera. But I felt that like my military experience, was very much like a a corporate because of the place that I was specifically at. So that was one experience. I also did an internship during my university studies in SAP, actually in the Silicon Valley. So it was kind of. Summer period that I went there to do the internship and I think like every time that I got exposed to those like corporate jobs. I realize this is not what I do. What I want to do. In my life.

I have to tell you, I spent 26 years of my career in IT and tech in corporate public sector environments, so I I spent a number of years in the insurance business, programming in the old language called Cobalt. There’s a language a lot of people today say, oh, what’s that? It still drives. 90% of the financial systems in the world. Believe it or not. And then I spent ohh 21 years in tech support. For one of Candie’s biggest hospitals and by the time I left that job, it was like I’m done here too. I did not want to go back to another corporate job. So it’s quite interesting. And the lifestyles are totally different, aren’t they?

Yeah, I mean it in both places, like I I love. OK, let let me phrase it this way. I think I’m trying to to do things that I’m passionate about anyway, and when I’m passionate about something, I do invest a lot of work into that. But I actually felt incorporate that I was missing that part that I was pushed away to be a slower. Less productive unintentionally. It’s just large organization. Everything moves slower. More decision makers, much more meetings, a lot of time wasted. And for me, I I need the drive. I need to move faster. I need to. You know, working something produce the liver like there there is this kind of pace of working hard and delivering and creating and that this is something that I was missing in corporate.

No, I get that. Would you consider yourself as being somebody with ADHD? And I asked that question for a reason because a lot of entrepreneurs are high driven people actually are ADHD. Would you throw yourself in bed or would you just say you’re high?

No, no, I I’m actually hyper focused like person and just. This like I can do multiple things and On the contrary I really know how to. You know, be super. I don’t like to do multiple things. Also, like we’re not going to touch it right now, but. They’re are entrepreneurs that are very much into let’s run multiple products in parallel or something like that. I’m more into choose the best bet and put all your eggs on that, you know.

Yeah, they it. There’s two schools of thought, right? Put all your eggs in one basket or spread your wrist. Whichever way you decide to go. So that’s interesting. I think Hyper focused is really important for an entrepreneur. A lot of people who say they’re entrepreneurs, they don’t focus well. They don’t plan well. They don’t organize well. And I personally think it starts with a good morning routine. Do you have one? And how do you deal with that?

Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, how much do you want to talk about it because like I?

Go ahead.

Have it all, yeah. Yeah, please. Sure. So actually like. Three years ago, I I had, I went through this kind of personal growth journey. I had a period with anxiety and like, I was constantly thinking about work. We’re not able to. Break that kind of pattern of not being able to figure out a work life balance. It was only like work. And also when there was, you know, life, my brain was in the works. So as part of that, I’m maybe it sounds like a little distraction from what you asked, but it’s it’s part of that. I started to research and listen to different thought leaders and learn what I can do to improve. My day-to-day practices and as part of that I did develop kind of a morning routine that now slightly shifted with my with the baby that I have. I don’t have as much time as I had before, but. I do daily like planning all the time and I’m using something called the Five Minute Journal app which I learned from Tim Ferries. He’s not. He didn’t invent the app or the the the concept he is using it and kind of recommending it. It it’s a combo of. Journal journaling, planning, and mindfulness in in one.

Again, I’m.

What, sorry.

I said absolutely amazing because it’s worth saying that all of us who manage our time and do stuff out many of us journal, including myself. So I’m listening to you saying, I know this road, I started journaling. Ohh 30 years ago on paper. Then I switched somewhere to a Google. And then I had a conversation on this podcast with Kristen Wright. And Kristen is one of the marketing people at the day one act that automatically. And I switched to day one about a year ago. Thanks, Kristen. And I I. Haven’t been happier, like it’s just so I think. All of us. Performance people and entrepreneurs. Journaling is just gotta be part of your life, doesn’t.

Yeah, I I think it really helped me to just maybe I’ll like share a little how it works and then I’ll tell kind of the consequences, how it, you know, changed me. So the idea is to start the day with that and end the day with the app and in the morning you basically. Right, three things that you’re grateful for. Three things that you want to achieve today. And one affirmation about yourself, like something positive that you say in the evening, you share like 3 highlights of the day, at least three you you can share more. And one thing that you learned. During the day and it it made me happier because I started morning with the positives and. And I end the day with the highlights and the achievements rather than. Starting the morning with the fires, you know that gets into your e-mail and end the day with something that interrupts my brain. Before I go to sleep. Basically, it also made me much. Better planner because in the beginning I noticed that I was. It’s by the way, the planning of the highlights and what I want to achieve. It’s not only about like work, it’s like combining. Thing you know, whatever you want to do during the day, I wanna. I don’t know. Set up a new display in my workstation. Whatever. Whatever makes you feel good. And I think it’s also important, especially for entrepreneurs, because we get so much consumed with work that we many times forget the things that really makes us feel good there. Maybe outside of work because we keep kind of pushing them away. So like I said, the second thing that it may me is better planner because I noticed that I was. I wanted to to achieve so many things but I end the day and I only see that I managed to achieve. I don’t know 234. Them. So I started to plan better and when I starting the day I’m not, you know, I reduced the amount of activities that I’m hoping to achieve because it’s just life and realizing that I can’t really get to that. And today I’m in a place where it is pretty much aligned. You know, whatever I’m planning. I’m. Able to achieve that. And that makes you feel really good because you set yourself goals and you’re achieving them, you know. And I think there’s a lot of satisfaction and that as a human being because it’s again, it’s not only work, it’s like whatever you want to do in life, you set it. You see it happening.

No, I I agree with you wholeheartedly. And there’s a couple of things you touched on. One was being mindful, which I think is really important for the headspace. And you gotta take care of that headspace. So what we need to do as entrepreneurs is ditch all this negative self feeling that a lot of us have. I I don’t have it anymore. But I’ve gone through faces and password. It’s like I can’t achieve this cause I’m not good enough and you have to ditch that kind of thinking because we wouldn’t be doing what we do if we felt that way. So stop the negative. Health talk. Two other things that help me there. Is I subscribed to a guy and I’ve talked on this podcast about a guy by name of Doctor John Deloney. He’s he does a a mental health podcast on the Ramsey network. He’s put out a couple of books and he basically sits with people and takes calls. And what he does is he works through situations and it’s funny, I was listening to. One last night from Friday, and he had a call where parents were having problems with their kids and their adult kids and they were trying to find a way to deal with it. And I. And I’m like, this isn’t my situation, but I can relate. So that really helps. The other thing I do is I end every day with the call map. So before I go to bed, I unwind with the meditation every night. Have you tried that approach or have you stayed awake?

I I tried I tried meditation and. I didn’t manage to get into that meditative state. I think that I I didn’t invest enough time into it and I have that mentality of. Not spending too much time on something. You know, I I want to see results quicker like previously. I also had like a morning stretching and a little workout routine, but that part unfortunately fell away because of the baby. You know, when you wake up like 5-6 times.

Oh yeah.

During the night and you are awake since 5:00 AM. You don’t have the energy to do any stretching. You know. You just want to go to sleep or start the day or whatever.

Yeah, it’s so. True, it is so true now. We’ve talked a little bit about morning routine and I think the other thing that’s important for entrepreneurs is to get into a productivity routine. So one of the things I do is I’m a bit of a productivity junkie. And I admit that. So I’ve got. Probably 30 or 35 books on. Everything from how to manage workflow to how to manage a calendar to we all know the famous getting things done, system GTR, right? We all know that. And one of the things I find that really helps me during the day and and people laugh is I color code my calendar. I really do. I can take my calendar to glances beside me and. OK, for example, you’re and I podcast record is yellow. Anything to do with my partner is red. Anything to do with client meeting as a green? And I look at my calendar to glance real quickly and say, OK, this is the type of task I have today. Do you do something similar or different or?

I do it. Too, exactly like based on the types of the activities and I think you know you mentioned calendar and. As part of that growth journey, like I realize how important the calendar is and like also being mindful to actually achieve your goals, you have to put the activities on the calendar in order for them to happen. Because if you just if it’s just A to do list. You know, like you need to allocate the actual time in order for something to happen, because you don’t know how long exactly that task will take, and it’s more of. Amount you know, either deciding this is the time slot that I put and I have to finish it during that time, whatever I will produce, that’s the quality or this is just the time that you give it. But in the end you finish the day and you worked on what you planned on. And another thing that. This is like I I watched a lot of Miriam’s videos. I don’t know if you know this guy.

I do.

He has a book called Indestructible and he talks about like destructions and things like that, and like social media was also taking a lot of my time and focus. And what what he says basically, it’s not like you can’t, like everything has to be work, work, work all the time. But like, constrain the time you. You know, look at your social media, whatever. Like you’re doing your kind of non brain work. You know, when your brain is to, you know, to just to take a break also put that in a time slot. So it will be like. Everything will be planned.

Yeah, I actually suggest for social media, people take their smartphone and turn all the notifications off on that phone, except the important ones. So the only ones that I leave turned on is I have a voice voice over IP phone number for my business, those those notifications. Stay on the text from those, stay on even my regular cell phone number. I turn all my notifications on. And the biggest thing that people do forget social media is they become a slave to their e-mail. And we all know this from client sends e-mail, client picks up phone 5 minutes later and says why haven’t you responded to my e-mail? And my response is I haven’t looked at it yet. And and unless it’s a 911, meaning a dire emergency. I’m gonna schedule it to be looked out later. I checked e-mail 2-3 times a day. That’s it. I don’t sit with my e-mail open all day. I don’t sit with social open all day because it kills the productivity like you wouldn’t believe.

Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, it sounds like, you know, we we learn similar stuff. So I agree 100%, I will just double down on it that I think there are some social apps that are so addictive that even turning off the notifications, probably not enough and you better install them because once you open them. It’s easy to open when it’s over the phone, right? You can still access them on the web. But it’s different because when you have the phone, it’s always there and like it’s itching, you know, so when you open Instagram and you start watching a video, it becomes half an hour or 15 minutes, whatever it is of. Fun videos but are like just dumb stuff and you’re wasting your time and it also distracts you from what you really want. So like, it’s part of that. Like I would also recommend to actually uninstall some of those very addictive apps.

Talks another one. It’s the same. Get it off the phone. I don’t even have an account. Not going there. Same same problem. So I agree with you. Do you use A to do list app? Which I do do as well. By the way, are you used To Do List? Have for a long time or or a project management app which I do as well to manage projects to do either one of those two things.

So so I do both like we have. We use Asana for project management premiums. And for personal as well As for work stuff, more like strategic high level points, but also for like day-to-day stuff. I was using pen and paper. But I recently transitioned to use remarkable, which is simulation of pen and paper. I really my wife got it like a year ago, tried to push me. I wanted to see how she’s using that first and play with it a little and I eventually got convinced. And. And myself too. I I would say that I would argue that pen and paper is still more convenient, but there is something into the fact that, you know, it’s digital and there are like more flexibility in what you can do. You can export it, share it. So but yeah, I I also manage, you know, spend and pay like to DOS in addition to the project management stuff.

Yeah. And I think the key with apps is decide on your stack of apps for you or your agency. Or your company. And warn them? Well, let’s stop playing the let’s jump around to the shiny new thing every time the new app comes out, because that is the biggest waste of productivity time going. I think you kind of got to stabilize. In a stack and I get moving apps cause I’ve done that. And the note taking space, I’ve certainly done that. We all know Evernote was the de facto standard 10 years ago, and if you’ve watched what’s gone on with it. So I made a shift there. But generally, as a rule, I I pretty well use the same apps I’ve been using for years because of familiarity and ease of use.

Yeah, yeah, I totally agree with you. And I think there is. There there are different kind of methodologies I I would say I will expand on what you said not only about project management, but in general you know you can keep chasing technologies all the time.

Yes. Oh yeah.

It it’s just, you know it’s it’s especially in the web, it’s just impossible.

Yeah. So as you mentioned, your wife. So I’m gonna dive in there. The family unit is so important from a support perspective to entrepreneurs. And I mean that wholeheartedly. I was married for three years and I’m now divorced. Thank God to be on and my ex-wife was so not supportive of what I did, even though I was bringing in money, even though I was doing stuff and she did not get how. An entrepreneur could make money staying home, working on a. Computer which is. What I did, what I do right and it. Would be like. Why don’t you go out and get a regular job? I’m like. No, I’m not doing that. I make more money doing what I’m doing and look what I’m doing for us as a family and she didn’t get that and would also tell you is my current partner, Tis who’s Italian we were talking offline. She is the only partner that’s ever been my life. That’s actually come out to see me. Speak. I do speak in conferences. And stuff. And last year when I was speaking at Podcamp Toronto, which is big podcasting convention, similar to word camps. She said to me. Would it be OK if I came and she’s already said to me this year I’m I’ve a talk on the docket for February and she’s like, I want to come again. So that support from your family that matters. And then she’ll sit down and say to me on the phone. Because we don’t live together right now. Says. How’s your day? What’s going on? And and the family unit from a support perspective is so important.

I think it’s mission critical, you know, to have the right partner when you are entrepreneur. And I would, you know attest that my wife made me a much better entrepreneur. Over the years, because she is bringing. I’m going to generalize here. But usually generalizations you know they’re based on averages. I feel that males are much less have much less emotional intelligence. Than females.

As a rule, yes.

I think as a rule, as a rule generalization I’m saying. I I think. So. So she is a. Senior manager right now in the government. But she went through. Her, you know, career journey and. Like for many years I am the companies leader, you know, and she was actually, she always had managers. So she always brought me the perspective of someone, you know, from the other side while connecting it to the emotional parts that I was miss. So I think over the years she really helped me to become a much better leader manager. The way I communicate, you know, in so many things as well as she was an advisor, you know and supported me and you know. Everything that is essential, especially like with free news I don’t have Co founders, you know, so it’s it’s me. And yes, today I have like a leadership team and obviously I get their advice. But there are some things. That you need to have that confident that you don’t have, unless they’re a co-founder. And I think that my wife being in that role, it doesn’t mean that everything she’s, you know, she told me that she she led the company or something. But she provided the input and was very intelligent and. It always kind of helped. Me, I think. To to be better what I do.

Yeah, I would. I would agree with that, I. Mean my partner Tiz. We’re talking. She just celebrated her 35th anniversary with the same company. And that’s incredible in this meeting. So it’s so unusual. Yeah. And I said to her, and it’s an insurance broker. Business I know a little bit about my dad was the CFO for an insurance broker for over 30 years, so I know lots about that industry. And I said to her, once I said, why do you have these states so. And she said, you know, there I’ve been there so long and they have a core group of ladies and men who’ve all been there over 25 years. So it’s like a second family and she’s an admin assistant, but she’s somebody who works really hard at her job. So her job perspective is different than mine. And that helps when we sit down and talk about. How was your day? How’s things going? And you gotta be able to have those conversations. You might not have them every day. But you got to be able to reach out. To your partner in life and say. How was your day? I really want to hear about it because that helps you learn about them too, right? It helps you learn about your wife. It helps me learn about my partner and that support, like his, unwavering. Like, as I said, when she said she wanted to go watch me speak, I was forced because every other partner is in my life. I said you go do your thing and I’m like ohh really. You know, like they they have no idea how much work a 45 minute talk takes. Right. And and we both understand for me a 45 minute talk is probably 10 to 15 hours of work. But I’m gonna do the slides I added, I prep, I have somebody look at it so on and so forth. And I think to work the lifestyle we work. And I don’t. Know about you. But sometimes my days are flexible, so I’ll take. And now we’re in the. Middle and say it’s Christmas season. We celebrate Christmas and. Canada, I’ll take an hour and say I’m better off going doing my running around the middle of my day and I’ll just work later at night because. That’s a better use of my time and people look at me and say, how can you do that? And even my own mother doesn’t understand that. It’s like, how can you do that and work late? And I said because that’s why I’m wired and I function. And do we even support our lifestyle and our lifestyle changes and the flexibility like I’ll run out the door? Today at 4:00. And I commute, so I won’t drive to where I’m going. I’ll jump on a regional bus and I’ll work the whole trip on the regional bus. And people say, how do you do that? Well, what I do gives me that flexibility, right.

Yeah, yeah, I I think that the way I I look on like good relationship with partner, spouse, whatever is. Like you want to strive that it will be like in addition to you know, there are good things in relationship in the context of entrepreneurship. You should be coach. To one another, like coach is one another. And that what helps you become better? You know, we push each other to get out of our comfort zone. I’m pushing here to do some things that maybe she. Is afraid to take to, you know, to make that step same thing. You know, she’s pushing me to do something that maybe I’m concerned, but like lava, you know, it’s the time you should do it. You know, giving me that extra push that I need sometimes. So being a coach to like one another, I think is really helpful.

Yeah. And and. More importantly, even though we’re all busy, make sure you tell your partner you love them and you think about them every day. Because I think that’s really.

Well, that’s the fundamental I think in relationship.

But I think some people forget. About fundamentals like what does it take? I mean, you know, as I said, we we don’t live in the same house. And I’m gonna tell you my last phone call at night before I unwind this with her and my first phone call at 6:30 in the morning is with her. Every day and people don’t understand. How much even doing that matters at the end of the day? Like they don’t they? Connection right. And that’s that’s so important. So I wanted to jump into a little bit more about entrepreneurship. What do you think are the qualities that make a really, really good entrepreneur in, in our times right now?

Adjustability and being able to. Navigate challenges you. Know I think entrepreneurship is 1 big. Mass challenge. And every day there’s something new that you. Need to deal with. I would say that it also depends on your. Aspirations and where do you want to see yourself and how much you want to grow and what direction you want to grow, etcetera. But as long as you are interested in growing like every like growth journey requires. And changes are challenging by nature. You know, we prefer as humans to do something that we already really good at. But entrepreneurship, by definition, it means. Dealing with challenges all the time, you know, and I think that’s the beauty of it, because that’s. What is? Why is it so interesting? You constantly learn new things constantly evolve, you know, develop new skills abilities like. It’s beautiful for me, for a sign, you know.

Yeah, it’s a challenge. I think you were talking about challenges and I shared the story. There’s a a well known hockey Hall of Fame professional goaltender. Gentleman by the name of Ken Dryden. And Ken won five Stanley Cups with the Montreal Canadiens back in the 70s. He retired in 79 at the top of his game. He was a lawyer by trade, So what? A combination is that he’s an author. He’s got eight or nine books out. I I forget I’m such a fan. He was a politician, a Cabinet Minister of federal Cabinet. And he still teaches law and policy at McGill University of. And somebody asked him once in an interview, why do you do all this stuff? You could retire, and he’s in this stuff and he’s brother and now and somebody said and his answer to him was I’m driven by challenge and I bring that up because that’s what we do as entrepreneurs. We’re challenged, driven. We’re the type of people who want to learn every day. I still read a book a week. Believe it or not, I make time to read 1/2 hour every day all day and we’re all and we’re always driven and I think that’s important, right?

Yep, Yep. And I mean, there are many traits, you know that also there are different styles, but I think the key is like pushing yourself, getting out of the comfort zone challenges, that’s kind of the repetitive theme.

You know, what would you say is the biggest thing entrepreneurs struggle with in today’s? Day and age. I’m making the event today, I know.

No, it’s interesting questions, I think it. Probably depends on what is your sector, like entrepreneurship in what you know. There are like huge economic changes that are happening.

Or and if.

Oh yeah? Watch.

They ask you, they can. They can be really challenging and they can, like, kill your business, your spirit. Whatever, as an example like the travel agency, anything that touched like travel during COVID pretty much died. During the period. So so. Those were like huge life threatening challenges to businesses and the entrepreneurs behind them. And they had to really reinvent themselves in order to survive. I don’t know if there is something. Like generic that will be relevant to any type of entrepreneur. So I think it kind of varies according to the ecosystem.

Yeah, I I would agree. I I I think it does in Israel, do you guys have a large entrepreneur support community. So one of the things in Toronto we have, I’m just outside Toronto right now. Toronto has an incredible. Through the city. Support community for entrepreneurs, including a yearly conference where they bring in some top keynote speaker. Others to speak to aspiring entrepreneurs or well versed entrepreneurs. A trade show do. You do anything like that back home?

So. So Israel is probably the second largest tech hub in the world after the Silicon Valley. So there is massive concentration of tech startups here in like Tel Aviv area in Israel alone. Maybe it’s slightly changed like in the latest years. I’m not sure. But there is this really good book that’s called the Startup Nation about Israel that explains. Kind of why we have so much tech here, but it’s like it’s packed, you know, with startups like, OK.

You just. I need to tell you you just added another book to my reading list. Thanks. For that one so.

Maybe we can, maybe we can maybe. Like after you read it like we can have another call and discuss about, you know, my perspective as someone who is Israeli, about the book, so.

I would. I would love to. That’s that would just be amazing, but. Thank you for the suggestion and and. I get big startup communities cause I don’t know how much you know. Toronto has a big startup community. Ottawa in Canada is a big tech hub. We of course have Waterloo University in that area, which is big tech hub. The big company out of Waterloo for years was BlackBerry. Believe it or not, still in existence despite and without BlackBerry, we wouldn’t have the smartphone revolution the way we do. They were an innovator. They’re still in business because. There’s still a. Patent company, by the way, if anybody wants a good look, go check out the movie called BlackBerry. There’s now a a film about that, but so I understand where you’re coming from. Do you spend? A lot of time in that community, like, do you go to events, do you go out and talk to colleagues or? Do you just kind of hiding? There’s caves, so to speak.

Yeah, I think it depends on the period. You know, right now we’re all hiding in The Cave in this period. And Israel, I would say at times when I’m more into like maybe hiring like depends. You know, there were periods that I wanted to.

Yes, I am wise.

Expand my knowledge in marketing. Then I went to more like marketing related meetups or and I’m hiring and going you know to events when there are more developers or something like that or if I raising money then you know you start to talk with friends and get those interest. We have a lot of. Like large VC fancier international like oh I like. I would probably guess that. Most of the largest visa firms from the Silicon Valley has a branch in Israel, so.

Yeah, I would say I would say the one thing you gotta watch though is if you’re going to VC funding route is control of your company, right? I mean, cause once the VC’s get involved, we saw it with Cisco, the big network company. I don’t know if anybody knows that story, but the two people, the husband and wife that founded. Disco basically got pushed out the door by the VC’s in the end, but they became multi multi millionaires. When that happened we saw it with open AI. Recently you saw what happened. There, with the open AI CEO being forced out, and then everybody, including Microsoft revolting and he now has a job again. How did that? Happen, you know. So you gotta be really careful when you take. These same money I.

Think absolutely. Let me just clarify. We didn’t raise this money for free. News and have no plans, so I just mentioned it. As you know, the different periods that I do interact and previous is not. My first start up I had previous ones. When we we did went through that route. Yeah, just wanted to clarify.

No, it’s all good. So now you mentioned for me. So let’s switch gears a little bit. You found it for years. You’re doing really well with it. How is Freemium’s founded and what need does itself for the listeners?

Yeah, sure. So it started, as you know, scratching my own itch, basically that story that you asked me about how I got involved into WordPress is related to that. I basically took took the plugin, you know spend time on taking it and turning it into a commercial. I realized that the commercial part is much more complex and time consuming. Then the plugin itself. So I said. Uh-huh. You know, there are many developers out there that writing code, plugin themes, git libraries, you know, packages, whatever, all of that. It’s their passion projects. But there are still. Working, you know, incorporate most of them and doing other things. So I started to chat with them and to understand if they had the option to focus on their thing as a primary kind of role in their life and they were all, you know, I wish I could do that so. I realize. OK, you know, there is a big market of software creators out there that would love to do their to work on their software as a primary thing. But in order for them to take that into a commercial solution. It’s having investment takes a lot of time and most people are not entrepreneurs, so they don’t have. You know the privilege to pause with their life for a year just to see if it works, you know, just to see if they can make the first dollar. So this is the premise of premise, basically the platform that solves the whole commercial stock for selling software starting. From the payments? Subscriptions, managing users, software licensing, software updates, and higher in the stack. Getting into marketing automation and offering an affiliate platform. Basically everything that you need as a developer to take your. Zip file with your code and make money. Out of it.

That’s a great solution. That’s like an all in one shop and you guys unfortunately. And then 4th mentioning you had a tough Rd. about a year ago, you got hit with a major security vulnerability, right. And I thought from somebody who’s in that space. The premiers team handled it exceptionally and very quickly, so you should be commended for. That the only problem was when you got hit with it, every other plug-in got hit with it and that’s the only drawback to using an ecosystem. But my argument is, for me, security is all about who I trust and it was handled well. So I think my trust factor didn’t erode there. And I just mentioned that. From the point.

Thanks. So I think you know security issues, it’s just part of like a software solution like like you can produce like 100% bulletproof code because in the end of the day, there are people behind it. It’s not the first security vulnerability that we had. We had several before and our goal is, you know, try every time when it happens. Two, like the best execution that we can to patch it, but also do a retrospect and see you know how we can handle it better next time. And I feel that. Less like in the less vulnerability, we indeed handle that like exceptionally well. Yet because we we learn so much from the previous times, like we we had. You know no, not the issue. Some challenges from the previous experiences. That were like. Things that we didn’t expect we didn’t anticipate. We also less like in in the less time we worked with Patch Stack so they do have a lot of knowledge of how to handle those rights. So there were some tips and ideas that we didn’t think about. How to manage that kind of distribution of the fix that also helped us, so combining that knowledge together, I think that today we have a really, really good process how to handle vulnerabilities. I hope obviously that we won’t have them, but. You’re being realistic. You know it, it will happen and that’s the nature, unfortunately of libraries, you know, like when you have something that is running in so many products, there is the risk that like it will have some. Nothing is.

It’s it’s like every time Elementor has an issue because they use the Sears of libraries for all the add-ons. The add the add-ons have the same issue because the libraries common across the board is a good example.

Let let let’s look on a better example. You know every time there’s vulnerability in WordPress. Yeah, yeah. You know and and those are happening every year, several times per year, so.

Yeah. And I have to give a shout out to patch that can all over sit in his team because they are part of my security solution that they use for my clients and they do. An exceptional job over there and the information they provide, whether it’s in their newsletter, in their blog, in terms of updates. I’m a I’m a paid agency user patch stack and I am so happy so. Thanks to them for what they’ve done for you for what they’ve done for me and a number of people in our community. So appreciate.

Absolutely. And and from our perspective, not not only that, it was great to work with them like they’re are true, like they care about communities. You know, they’re not there. There are some other security researchers like. Individuals and companies that they more about the fame and the publicity of, you know, sharing that vulnerability out there as soon as they can just to get the traffic.

A certain.

Well, we.

A certain company that starts with a W whose name I will not mention on this podcast, right? You know where I’m going, but.

Yeah. Yeah. So, so, you know here, there was a clear, like, it felt like we were working with a partner, you know, to achieve the same goal as insuring, like, minimal exposure.

No parts.

So kudos for sure.

Yeah, I I also use on a site of I use order the solid WP products for me I themes and patch that works with them too. So I’ve got relationships there all the way through. So I I truly understand I and I’ve had all of her on the show and some of the stuff on the show. So I I appreciate those guys so much. So thank you for mentioning that now how? Many do you. Mind sharing. And if you don’t want to, that’s OK in the ballpark. How many users or free miss do? You have right now.

When you say users, do you mean like software sellers?

Yeah. How many software sellers do? You have.

Let’s say 4 figures.

OK.

And live the imagination of people start working.

Yeah, yeah, that’s more fun. Yeah. Has there been any feature that your software sellers have asked you to put in that you’re working on in a road map that you can check?

Well, when you deal with thousands of product people, there is a lot of ideas. There’s constantly ideas. We we are working on, you know, prioritization for 2024, like the things that we know for sure that will happen. We already you know the ball is rolling. We’re revamping the checkout of premium. Which is a big thing, not only modernizing it, we actually released phase one today, announce it and send an e-mail. Thank you. Thank you. It’s just the first phase where we just tweak like making it look more modern. The second phase will be.

You’re right.

Which we again work with the Community, you know, received a lot of feedback, not only. More modern, but also should be more better converting friendlier in terms of the experience and a lot of other like good things. We also want in 24 to expand. Like today, you can already sell whatever software you want for freemium. But the terminology and some of the experience the developer experience is targeted to WordPress because that’s how we started. We do want to in 24 to focus on or to expand into SAS to supporting like.

Oh, that’s cool.

Yeah, thank you to natively support SAS. Which is a slightly different experience. It means putting more emphasis on the API documentation and other things that, like with framing is sorry. With WordPress you know we we offer an SDK and like you get everything out of the. Box you don’t need. To like too much integrations, etcetera. It’s sass like every sass is slightly different even though there is a lot of like. Like patterns and like similar features that SAS need but you you can’t really offer one is the key for everyone. Yeah. So you need to have a very good API, documentation, other things. So this year we spent a lot of. Ours talking with SAS creators, some of them familiar with frumious and using it, or it’s done just to understand. How would the how they envision the perfect kind of solution also you know understanding what. Gaps that the current solutions out there have to see if we can, you know, offer something better. And what would be better? And I’m pretty confident in what we are going to do. So that will be a big one for 24. There are more things, but yeah, let’s let’s stop here.

We’ll we’ll just have to get you back to talk about the book and the more things down. The road, right, that’s, you know always right.

Sure. Happy to do that.

Yeah, and. Is there anything else you’d like to add about from us, or why somebody should look at your solution versus another solution?

I would say you know our value per position. Pretty simple. You can make more money with premiums with less headache. Premiums is not a solution for everyone. You know there are different styles and different solutions and that’s totally fine. But we do take care of a lot of headaches and pains and allow developers to focus on their product instead of the the like the commercial operation. So this is one thing and the second thing I. Will just give. A shout out to our podcast. We also have one. It’s relatively new, if you don’t mind. That’s OK.

Please do please do. Sharing is the way what we do here.

Sharing is caring, right?

So is.

So we have a podcast called Plugin dot FM which is specifically focused on software creators. So we bring other product, people, creators and cover topics. That are that those guests had unique insights and first hand experiences and we dive into actionable tips and practices, how you can basically apply those things in your business. So this is plug in FM.

Yeah, that is so awesome. And since we talked the last time, I should tell you it’s already in my podcast app. So I’m I’m in this. We’re doing that. If somebody wants to get a hold. Of you to talk. Entrepreneurship, about freeness about should they? Use your product. How’s the best way?

Twitter’s ***** felt. One simple as that, if you want to add it to show notes or something, I don’t know if you have it, but like my VMS are open, I read every VM even if we’re not connected or something.

Vova, thank you very much for joining us and have an amazing day.

Thank you. It was a pleasure. Thanks.

 

Morning Everyone, Rob Cairns here and today I am here with my guest Volva Feldman from Freemius, How are you today?

I’m doing pretty good, a little sick, but I think today I’m feeling better, really excited to be on the show Rob and and bring value to your audience.

Now I’m gone. Yeah, I’m glad to have you. And you are coming to us from a tough spot of. The world right now.

That’s what then you say.

That that’s right. So we’ll just leave it at that. So I wanted to talk to you before we jump into what we’re going to talk. About how did. You end up in. The WordPress space I was like to ask that question cause everybody’s got an interesting journey. How did you end up there?

Yeah, it’s a great question. So I feel that I was kind of pushed to that ecosystem. I had a side thing that I it was a little sass that I was offering for free for people that wanted. To have rating solution on their website. And over the years, I started to receive requests from people saying, hey, I want to use it in WordPress, but like I don’t know how to take that JavaScript basically and mix it into my WordPress and I got you know, many of those requests eventually realized. Well, let’s check what workers is. And it led me eventually to develop a plugin that was wrapping that service into a plugin so people can use it in WordPress. So that’s my story basically with WordPress.

Yeah, that’s that’s really cool. It isn’t it? How so many of us have found ourselves in WordPress professionally by trying to solve our own problems or our friend’s problem, and then we realize what a great open source ecosystem we have, and we end up staying. Isn’t that so true?

Absolutely. Absolutely. I I I was actually. I don’t think I was very aware about the concept of, you know, an open source project and how things are working. And like the the community behind it. So it it really opened up my eyes basically.

And we do, we do have a pretty vibrant community. You’re high in the community for what you do. I’m high in the community for what I do, and I think we’re really blessed to have the community. We do. Yeah, we got some problems. There’s no question about that one. And we’ve had a few lately, but what what large community doesn’t?

Yeah, absolutely. I think if you if you don’t have problems, it’s not interesting enough. You need to have. Some drama, right?

Yeah, that’s so true. So let’s jump into the topic. We really wanted to talk about and that was entrepreneurship. You’re a lifelong entrepreneur. Have you ever worked for somebody in a corporate environment? And why entrepreneurship? For you.

Yeah, I did have a a few regular jobs, if you can call it that way. One of them, probably the biggest was my military experience. So when people think about military in Israel, we immediately think, you know, especially right now, you know. People running with guns, but the military is much bigger. You know, there are many roles. I was running with the keyboard and coding so. I think that. I was that there are many departments, divisions et cetera. But I felt that like my military experience, was very much like a a corporate because of the place that I was specifically at. So that was one experience. I also did an internship during my university studies in SAP, actually in the Silicon Valley. So it was kind of. Summer period that I went there to do the internship and I think like every time that I got exposed to those like corporate jobs. I realize this is not what I do. What I want to do. In my life.

I have to tell you, I spent 26 years of my career in IT and tech in corporate public sector environments, so I I spent a number of years in the insurance business, programming in the old language called Cobalt. There’s a language a lot of people today say, oh, what’s that? It still drives. 90% of the financial systems in the world. Believe it or not. And then I spent ohh 21 years in tech support. For one of Candie’s biggest hospitals and by the time I left that job, it was like I’m done here too. I did not want to go back to another corporate job. So it’s quite interesting. And the lifestyles are totally different, aren’t they?

Yeah, I mean it in both places, like I I love. OK, let let me phrase it this way. I think I’m trying to to do things that I’m passionate about anyway, and when I’m passionate about something, I do invest a lot of work into that. But I actually felt incorporate that I was missing that part that I was pushed away to be a slower. Less productive unintentionally. It’s just large organization. Everything moves slower. More decision makers, much more meetings, a lot of time wasted. And for me, I I need the drive. I need to move faster. I need to. You know, working something produce the liver like there there is this kind of pace of working hard and delivering and creating and that this is something that I was missing in corporate.

No, I get that. Would you consider yourself as being somebody with ADHD? And I asked that question for a reason because a lot of entrepreneurs are high driven people actually are ADHD. Would you throw yourself in bed or would you just say you’re high?

No, no, I I’m actually hyper focused like person and just. This like I can do multiple things and On the contrary I really know how to. You know, be super. I don’t like to do multiple things. Also, like we’re not going to touch it right now, but. They’re are entrepreneurs that are very much into let’s run multiple products in parallel or something like that. I’m more into choose the best bet and put all your eggs on that, you know.

Yeah, they it. There’s two schools of thought, right? Put all your eggs in one basket or spread your wrist. Whichever way you decide to go. So that’s interesting. I think Hyper focused is really important for an entrepreneur. A lot of people who say they’re entrepreneurs, they don’t focus well. They don’t plan well. They don’t organize well. And I personally think it starts with a good morning routine. Do you have one? And how do you deal with that?

Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, how much do you want to talk about it because like I?

Go ahead.

Have it all, yeah. Yeah, please. Sure. So actually like. Three years ago, I I had, I went through this kind of personal growth journey. I had a period with anxiety and like, I was constantly thinking about work. We’re not able to. Break that kind of pattern of not being able to figure out a work life balance. It was only like work. And also when there was, you know, life, my brain was in the works. So as part of that, I’m maybe it sounds like a little distraction from what you asked, but it’s it’s part of that. I started to research and listen to different thought leaders and learn what I can do to improve. My day-to-day practices and as part of that I did develop kind of a morning routine that now slightly shifted with my with the baby that I have. I don’t have as much time as I had before, but. I do daily like planning all the time and I’m using something called the Five Minute Journal app which I learned from Tim Ferries. He’s not. He didn’t invent the app or the the the concept he is using it and kind of recommending it. It it’s a combo of. Journal journaling, planning, and mindfulness in in one.

Again, I’m.

What, sorry.

I said absolutely amazing because it’s worth saying that all of us who manage our time and do stuff out many of us journal, including myself. So I’m listening to you saying, I know this road, I started journaling. Ohh 30 years ago on paper. Then I switched somewhere to a Google. And then I had a conversation on this podcast with Kristen Wright. And Kristen is one of the marketing people at the day one act that automatically. And I switched to day one about a year ago. Thanks, Kristen. And I I. Haven’t been happier, like it’s just so I think. All of us. Performance people and entrepreneurs. Journaling is just gotta be part of your life, doesn’t.

Yeah, I I think it really helped me to just maybe I’ll like share a little how it works and then I’ll tell kind of the consequences, how it, you know, changed me. So the idea is to start the day with that and end the day with the app and in the morning you basically. Right, three things that you’re grateful for. Three things that you want to achieve today. And one affirmation about yourself, like something positive that you say in the evening, you share like 3 highlights of the day, at least three you you can share more. And one thing that you learned. During the day and it it made me happier because I started morning with the positives and. And I end the day with the highlights and the achievements rather than. Starting the morning with the fires, you know that gets into your e-mail and end the day with something that interrupts my brain. Before I go to sleep. Basically, it also made me much. Better planner because in the beginning I noticed that I was. It’s by the way, the planning of the highlights and what I want to achieve. It’s not only about like work, it’s like combining. Thing you know, whatever you want to do during the day, I wanna. I don’t know. Set up a new display in my workstation. Whatever. Whatever makes you feel good. And I think it’s also important, especially for entrepreneurs, because we get so much consumed with work that we many times forget the things that really makes us feel good there. Maybe outside of work because we keep kind of pushing them away. So like I said, the second thing that it may me is better planner because I noticed that I was. I wanted to to achieve so many things but I end the day and I only see that I managed to achieve. I don’t know 234. Them. So I started to plan better and when I starting the day I’m not, you know, I reduced the amount of activities that I’m hoping to achieve because it’s just life and realizing that I can’t really get to that. And today I’m in a place where it is pretty much aligned. You know, whatever I’m planning. I’m. Able to achieve that. And that makes you feel really good because you set yourself goals and you’re achieving them, you know. And I think there’s a lot of satisfaction and that as a human being because it’s again, it’s not only work, it’s like whatever you want to do in life, you set it. You see it happening.

No, I I agree with you wholeheartedly. And there’s a couple of things you touched on. One was being mindful, which I think is really important for the headspace. And you gotta take care of that headspace. So what we need to do as entrepreneurs is ditch all this negative self feeling that a lot of us have. I I don’t have it anymore. But I’ve gone through faces and password. It’s like I can’t achieve this cause I’m not good enough and you have to ditch that kind of thinking because we wouldn’t be doing what we do if we felt that way. So stop the negative. Health talk. Two other things that help me there. Is I subscribed to a guy and I’ve talked on this podcast about a guy by name of Doctor John Deloney. He’s he does a a mental health podcast on the Ramsey network. He’s put out a couple of books and he basically sits with people and takes calls. And what he does is he works through situations and it’s funny, I was listening to. One last night from Friday, and he had a call where parents were having problems with their kids and their adult kids and they were trying to find a way to deal with it. And I. And I’m like, this isn’t my situation, but I can relate. So that really helps. The other thing I do is I end every day with the call map. So before I go to bed, I unwind with the meditation every night. Have you tried that approach or have you stayed awake?

I I tried I tried meditation and. I didn’t manage to get into that meditative state. I think that I I didn’t invest enough time into it and I have that mentality of. Not spending too much time on something. You know, I I want to see results quicker like previously. I also had like a morning stretching and a little workout routine, but that part unfortunately fell away because of the baby. You know, when you wake up like 5-6 times.

Oh yeah.

During the night and you are awake since 5:00 AM. You don’t have the energy to do any stretching. You know. You just want to go to sleep or start the day or whatever.

Yeah, it’s so. True, it is so true now. We’ve talked a little bit about morning routine and I think the other thing that’s important for entrepreneurs is to get into a productivity routine. So one of the things I do is I’m a bit of a productivity junkie. And I admit that. So I’ve got. Probably 30 or 35 books on. Everything from how to manage workflow to how to manage a calendar to we all know the famous getting things done, system GTR, right? We all know that. And one of the things I find that really helps me during the day and and people laugh is I color code my calendar. I really do. I can take my calendar to glances beside me and. OK, for example, you’re and I podcast record is yellow. Anything to do with my partner is red. Anything to do with client meeting as a green? And I look at my calendar to glance real quickly and say, OK, this is the type of task I have today. Do you do something similar or different or?

I do it. Too, exactly like based on the types of the activities and I think you know you mentioned calendar and. As part of that growth journey, like I realize how important the calendar is and like also being mindful to actually achieve your goals, you have to put the activities on the calendar in order for them to happen. Because if you just if it’s just A to do list. You know, like you need to allocate the actual time in order for something to happen, because you don’t know how long exactly that task will take, and it’s more of. Amount you know, either deciding this is the time slot that I put and I have to finish it during that time, whatever I will produce, that’s the quality or this is just the time that you give it. But in the end you finish the day and you worked on what you planned on. And another thing that. This is like I I watched a lot of Miriam’s videos. I don’t know if you know this guy.

I do.

He has a book called Indestructible and he talks about like destructions and things like that, and like social media was also taking a lot of my time and focus. And what what he says basically, it’s not like you can’t, like everything has to be work, work, work all the time. But like, constrain the time you. You know, look at your social media, whatever. Like you’re doing your kind of non brain work. You know, when your brain is to, you know, to just to take a break also put that in a time slot. So it will be like. Everything will be planned.

Yeah, I actually suggest for social media, people take their smartphone and turn all the notifications off on that phone, except the important ones. So the only ones that I leave turned on is I have a voice voice over IP phone number for my business, those those notifications. Stay on the text from those, stay on even my regular cell phone number. I turn all my notifications on. And the biggest thing that people do forget social media is they become a slave to their e-mail. And we all know this from client sends e-mail, client picks up phone 5 minutes later and says why haven’t you responded to my e-mail? And my response is I haven’t looked at it yet. And and unless it’s a 911, meaning a dire emergency. I’m gonna schedule it to be looked out later. I checked e-mail 2-3 times a day. That’s it. I don’t sit with my e-mail open all day. I don’t sit with social open all day because it kills the productivity like you wouldn’t believe.

Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, it sounds like, you know, we we learn similar stuff. So I agree 100%, I will just double down on it that I think there are some social apps that are so addictive that even turning off the notifications, probably not enough and you better install them because once you open them. It’s easy to open when it’s over the phone, right? You can still access them on the web. But it’s different because when you have the phone, it’s always there and like it’s itching, you know, so when you open Instagram and you start watching a video, it becomes half an hour or 15 minutes, whatever it is of. Fun videos but are like just dumb stuff and you’re wasting your time and it also distracts you from what you really want. So like, it’s part of that. Like I would also recommend to actually uninstall some of those very addictive apps.

Talks another one. It’s the same. Get it off the phone. I don’t even have an account. Not going there. Same same problem. So I agree with you. Do you use A to do list app? Which I do do as well. By the way, are you used To Do List? Have for a long time or or a project management app which I do as well to manage projects to do either one of those two things.

So so I do both like we have. We use Asana for project management premiums. And for personal as well As for work stuff, more like strategic high level points, but also for like day-to-day stuff. I was using pen and paper. But I recently transitioned to use remarkable, which is simulation of pen and paper. I really my wife got it like a year ago, tried to push me. I wanted to see how she’s using that first and play with it a little and I eventually got convinced. And. And myself too. I I would say that I would argue that pen and paper is still more convenient, but there is something into the fact that, you know, it’s digital and there are like more flexibility in what you can do. You can export it, share it. So but yeah, I I also manage, you know, spend and pay like to DOS in addition to the project management stuff.

Yeah. And I think the key with apps is decide on your stack of apps for you or your agency. Or your company. And warn them? Well, let’s stop playing the let’s jump around to the shiny new thing every time the new app comes out, because that is the biggest waste of productivity time going. I think you kind of got to stabilize. In a stack and I get moving apps cause I’ve done that. And the note taking space, I’ve certainly done that. We all know Evernote was the de facto standard 10 years ago, and if you’ve watched what’s gone on with it. So I made a shift there. But generally, as a rule, I I pretty well use the same apps I’ve been using for years because of familiarity and ease of use.

Yeah, yeah, I totally agree with you. And I think there is. There there are different kind of methodologies I I would say I will expand on what you said not only about project management, but in general you know you can keep chasing technologies all the time.

Yes. Oh yeah.

It it’s just, you know it’s it’s especially in the web, it’s just impossible.

Yeah. So as you mentioned, your wife. So I’m gonna dive in there. The family unit is so important from a support perspective to entrepreneurs. And I mean that wholeheartedly. I was married for three years and I’m now divorced. Thank God to be on and my ex-wife was so not supportive of what I did, even though I was bringing in money, even though I was doing stuff and she did not get how. An entrepreneur could make money staying home, working on a. Computer which is. What I did, what I do right and it. Would be like. Why don’t you go out and get a regular job? I’m like. No, I’m not doing that. I make more money doing what I’m doing and look what I’m doing for us as a family and she didn’t get that and would also tell you is my current partner, Tis who’s Italian we were talking offline. She is the only partner that’s ever been my life. That’s actually come out to see me. Speak. I do speak in conferences. And stuff. And last year when I was speaking at Podcamp Toronto, which is big podcasting convention, similar to word camps. She said to me. Would it be OK if I came and she’s already said to me this year I’m I’ve a talk on the docket for February and she’s like, I want to come again. So that support from your family that matters. And then she’ll sit down and say to me on the phone. Because we don’t live together right now. Says. How’s your day? What’s going on? And and the family unit from a support perspective is so important.

I think it’s mission critical, you know, to have the right partner when you are entrepreneur. And I would, you know attest that my wife made me a much better entrepreneur. Over the years, because she is bringing. I’m going to generalize here. But usually generalizations you know they’re based on averages. I feel that males are much less have much less emotional intelligence. Than females.

As a rule, yes.

I think as a rule, as a rule generalization I’m saying. I I think. So. So she is a. Senior manager right now in the government. But she went through. Her, you know, career journey and. Like for many years I am the companies leader, you know, and she was actually, she always had managers. So she always brought me the perspective of someone, you know, from the other side while connecting it to the emotional parts that I was miss. So I think over the years she really helped me to become a much better leader manager. The way I communicate, you know, in so many things as well as she was an advisor, you know and supported me and you know. Everything that is essential, especially like with free news I don’t have Co founders, you know, so it’s it’s me. And yes, today I have like a leadership team and obviously I get their advice. But there are some things. That you need to have that confident that you don’t have, unless they’re a co-founder. And I think that my wife being in that role, it doesn’t mean that everything she’s, you know, she told me that she she led the company or something. But she provided the input and was very intelligent and. It always kind of helped. Me, I think. To to be better what I do.

Yeah, I would. I would agree with that, I. Mean my partner Tiz. We’re talking. She just celebrated her 35th anniversary with the same company. And that’s incredible in this meeting. So it’s so unusual. Yeah. And I said to her, and it’s an insurance broker. Business I know a little bit about my dad was the CFO for an insurance broker for over 30 years, so I know lots about that industry. And I said to her, once I said, why do you have these states so. And she said, you know, there I’ve been there so long and they have a core group of ladies and men who’ve all been there over 25 years. So it’s like a second family and she’s an admin assistant, but she’s somebody who works really hard at her job. So her job perspective is different than mine. And that helps when we sit down and talk about. How was your day? How’s things going? And you gotta be able to have those conversations. You might not have them every day. But you got to be able to reach out. To your partner in life and say. How was your day? I really want to hear about it because that helps you learn about them too, right? It helps you learn about your wife. It helps me learn about my partner and that support, like his, unwavering. Like, as I said, when she said she wanted to go watch me speak, I was forced because every other partner is in my life. I said you go do your thing and I’m like ohh really. You know, like they they have no idea how much work a 45 minute talk takes. Right. And and we both understand for me a 45 minute talk is probably 10 to 15 hours of work. But I’m gonna do the slides I added, I prep, I have somebody look at it so on and so forth. And I think to work the lifestyle we work. And I don’t. Know about you. But sometimes my days are flexible, so I’ll take. And now we’re in the. Middle and say it’s Christmas season. We celebrate Christmas and. Canada, I’ll take an hour and say I’m better off going doing my running around the middle of my day and I’ll just work later at night because. That’s a better use of my time and people look at me and say, how can you do that? And even my own mother doesn’t understand that. It’s like, how can you do that and work late? And I said because that’s why I’m wired and I function. And do we even support our lifestyle and our lifestyle changes and the flexibility like I’ll run out the door? Today at 4:00. And I commute, so I won’t drive to where I’m going. I’ll jump on a regional bus and I’ll work the whole trip on the regional bus. And people say, how do you do that? Well, what I do gives me that flexibility, right.

Yeah, yeah, I I think that the way I I look on like good relationship with partner, spouse, whatever is. Like you want to strive that it will be like in addition to you know, there are good things in relationship in the context of entrepreneurship. You should be coach. To one another, like coach is one another. And that what helps you become better? You know, we push each other to get out of our comfort zone. I’m pushing here to do some things that maybe she. Is afraid to take to, you know, to make that step same thing. You know, she’s pushing me to do something that maybe I’m concerned, but like lava, you know, it’s the time you should do it. You know, giving me that extra push that I need sometimes. So being a coach to like one another, I think is really helpful.

Yeah. And and. More importantly, even though we’re all busy, make sure you tell your partner you love them and you think about them every day. Because I think that’s really.

Well, that’s the fundamental I think in relationship.

But I think some people forget. About fundamentals like what does it take? I mean, you know, as I said, we we don’t live in the same house. And I’m gonna tell you my last phone call at night before I unwind this with her and my first phone call at 6:30 in the morning is with her. Every day and people don’t understand. How much even doing that matters at the end of the day? Like they don’t they? Connection right. And that’s that’s so important. So I wanted to jump into a little bit more about entrepreneurship. What do you think are the qualities that make a really, really good entrepreneur in, in our times right now?

Adjustability and being able to. Navigate challenges you. Know I think entrepreneurship is 1 big. Mass challenge. And every day there’s something new that you. Need to deal with. I would say that it also depends on your. Aspirations and where do you want to see yourself and how much you want to grow and what direction you want to grow, etcetera. But as long as you are interested in growing like every like growth journey requires. And changes are challenging by nature. You know, we prefer as humans to do something that we already really good at. But entrepreneurship, by definition, it means. Dealing with challenges all the time, you know, and I think that’s the beauty of it, because that’s. What is? Why is it so interesting? You constantly learn new things constantly evolve, you know, develop new skills abilities like. It’s beautiful for me, for a sign, you know.

Yeah, it’s a challenge. I think you were talking about challenges and I shared the story. There’s a a well known hockey Hall of Fame professional goaltender. Gentleman by the name of Ken Dryden. And Ken won five Stanley Cups with the Montreal Canadiens back in the 70s. He retired in 79 at the top of his game. He was a lawyer by trade, So what? A combination is that he’s an author. He’s got eight or nine books out. I I forget I’m such a fan. He was a politician, a Cabinet Minister of federal Cabinet. And he still teaches law and policy at McGill University of. And somebody asked him once in an interview, why do you do all this stuff? You could retire, and he’s in this stuff and he’s brother and now and somebody said and his answer to him was I’m driven by challenge and I bring that up because that’s what we do as entrepreneurs. We’re challenged, driven. We’re the type of people who want to learn every day. I still read a book a week. Believe it or not, I make time to read 1/2 hour every day all day and we’re all and we’re always driven and I think that’s important, right?

Yep, Yep. And I mean, there are many traits, you know that also there are different styles, but I think the key is like pushing yourself, getting out of the comfort zone challenges, that’s kind of the repetitive theme.

You know, what would you say is the biggest thing entrepreneurs struggle with in today’s? Day and age. I’m making the event today, I know.

No, it’s interesting questions, I think it. Probably depends on what is your sector, like entrepreneurship in what you know. There are like huge economic changes that are happening.

Or and if.

Oh yeah? Watch.

They ask you, they can. They can be really challenging and they can, like, kill your business, your spirit. Whatever, as an example like the travel agency, anything that touched like travel during COVID pretty much died. During the period. So so. Those were like huge life threatening challenges to businesses and the entrepreneurs behind them. And they had to really reinvent themselves in order to survive. I don’t know if there is something. Like generic that will be relevant to any type of entrepreneur. So I think it kind of varies according to the ecosystem.

Yeah, I I would agree. I I I think it does in Israel, do you guys have a large entrepreneur support community. So one of the things in Toronto we have, I’m just outside Toronto right now. Toronto has an incredible. Through the city. Support community for entrepreneurs, including a yearly conference where they bring in some top keynote speaker. Others to speak to aspiring entrepreneurs or well versed entrepreneurs. A trade show do. You do anything like that back home?

So. So Israel is probably the second largest tech hub in the world after the Silicon Valley. So there is massive concentration of tech startups here in like Tel Aviv area in Israel alone. Maybe it’s slightly changed like in the latest years. I’m not sure. But there is this really good book that’s called the Startup Nation about Israel that explains. Kind of why we have so much tech here, but it’s like it’s packed, you know, with startups like, OK.

You just. I need to tell you you just added another book to my reading list. Thanks. For that one so.

Maybe we can, maybe we can maybe. Like after you read it like we can have another call and discuss about, you know, my perspective as someone who is Israeli, about the book, so.

I would. I would love to. That’s that would just be amazing, but. Thank you for the suggestion and and. I get big startup communities cause I don’t know how much you know. Toronto has a big startup community. Ottawa in Canada is a big tech hub. We of course have Waterloo University in that area, which is big tech hub. The big company out of Waterloo for years was BlackBerry. Believe it or not, still in existence despite and without BlackBerry, we wouldn’t have the smartphone revolution the way we do. They were an innovator. They’re still in business because. There’s still a. Patent company, by the way, if anybody wants a good look, go check out the movie called BlackBerry. There’s now a a film about that, but so I understand where you’re coming from. Do you spend? A lot of time in that community, like, do you go to events, do you go out and talk to colleagues or? Do you just kind of hiding? There’s caves, so to speak.

Yeah, I think it depends on the period. You know, right now we’re all hiding in The Cave in this period. And Israel, I would say at times when I’m more into like maybe hiring like depends. You know, there were periods that I wanted to.

Yes, I am wise.

Expand my knowledge in marketing. Then I went to more like marketing related meetups or and I’m hiring and going you know to events when there are more developers or something like that or if I raising money then you know you start to talk with friends and get those interest. We have a lot of. Like large VC fancier international like oh I like. I would probably guess that. Most of the largest visa firms from the Silicon Valley has a branch in Israel, so.

Yeah, I would say I would say the one thing you gotta watch though is if you’re going to VC funding route is control of your company, right? I mean, cause once the VC’s get involved, we saw it with Cisco, the big network company. I don’t know if anybody knows that story, but the two people, the husband and wife that founded. Disco basically got pushed out the door by the VC’s in the end, but they became multi multi millionaires. When that happened we saw it with open AI. Recently you saw what happened. There, with the open AI CEO being forced out, and then everybody, including Microsoft revolting and he now has a job again. How did that? Happen, you know. So you gotta be really careful when you take. These same money I.

Think absolutely. Let me just clarify. We didn’t raise this money for free. News and have no plans, so I just mentioned it. As you know, the different periods that I do interact and previous is not. My first start up I had previous ones. When we we did went through that route. Yeah, just wanted to clarify.

No, it’s all good. So now you mentioned for me. So let’s switch gears a little bit. You found it for years. You’re doing really well with it. How is Freemium’s founded and what need does itself for the listeners?

Yeah, sure. So it started, as you know, scratching my own itch, basically that story that you asked me about how I got involved into WordPress is related to that. I basically took took the plugin, you know spend time on taking it and turning it into a commercial. I realized that the commercial part is much more complex and time consuming. Then the plugin itself. So I said. Uh-huh. You know, there are many developers out there that writing code, plugin themes, git libraries, you know, packages, whatever, all of that. It’s their passion projects. But there are still. Working, you know, incorporate most of them and doing other things. So I started to chat with them and to understand if they had the option to focus on their thing as a primary kind of role in their life and they were all, you know, I wish I could do that so. I realize. OK, you know, there is a big market of software creators out there that would love to do their to work on their software as a primary thing. But in order for them to take that into a commercial solution. It’s having investment takes a lot of time and most people are not entrepreneurs, so they don’t have. You know the privilege to pause with their life for a year just to see if it works, you know, just to see if they can make the first dollar. So this is the premise of premise, basically the platform that solves the whole commercial stock for selling software starting. From the payments? Subscriptions, managing users, software licensing, software updates, and higher in the stack. Getting into marketing automation and offering an affiliate platform. Basically everything that you need as a developer to take your. Zip file with your code and make money. Out of it.

That’s a great solution. That’s like an all in one shop and you guys unfortunately. And then 4th mentioning you had a tough Rd. about a year ago, you got hit with a major security vulnerability, right. And I thought from somebody who’s in that space. The premiers team handled it exceptionally and very quickly, so you should be commended for. That the only problem was when you got hit with it, every other plug-in got hit with it and that’s the only drawback to using an ecosystem. But my argument is, for me, security is all about who I trust and it was handled well. So I think my trust factor didn’t erode there. And I just mentioned that. From the point.

Thanks. So I think you know security issues, it’s just part of like a software solution like like you can produce like 100% bulletproof code because in the end of the day, there are people behind it. It’s not the first security vulnerability that we had. We had several before and our goal is, you know, try every time when it happens. Two, like the best execution that we can to patch it, but also do a retrospect and see you know how we can handle it better next time. And I feel that. Less like in the less vulnerability, we indeed handle that like exceptionally well. Yet because we we learn so much from the previous times, like we we had. You know no, not the issue. Some challenges from the previous experiences. That were like. Things that we didn’t expect we didn’t anticipate. We also less like in in the less time we worked with Patch Stack so they do have a lot of knowledge of how to handle those rights. So there were some tips and ideas that we didn’t think about. How to manage that kind of distribution of the fix that also helped us, so combining that knowledge together, I think that today we have a really, really good process how to handle vulnerabilities. I hope obviously that we won’t have them, but. You’re being realistic. You know it, it will happen and that’s the nature, unfortunately of libraries, you know, like when you have something that is running in so many products, there is the risk that like it will have some. Nothing is.

It’s it’s like every time Elementor has an issue because they use the Sears of libraries for all the add-ons. The add the add-ons have the same issue because the libraries common across the board is a good example.

Let let let’s look on a better example. You know every time there’s vulnerability in WordPress. Yeah, yeah. You know and and those are happening every year, several times per year, so.

Yeah. And I have to give a shout out to patch that can all over sit in his team because they are part of my security solution that they use for my clients and they do. An exceptional job over there and the information they provide, whether it’s in their newsletter, in their blog, in terms of updates. I’m a I’m a paid agency user patch stack and I am so happy so. Thanks to them for what they’ve done for you for what they’ve done for me and a number of people in our community. So appreciate.

Absolutely. And and from our perspective, not not only that, it was great to work with them like they’re are true, like they care about communities. You know, they’re not there. There are some other security researchers like. Individuals and companies that they more about the fame and the publicity of, you know, sharing that vulnerability out there as soon as they can just to get the traffic.

A certain.

Well, we.

A certain company that starts with a W whose name I will not mention on this podcast, right? You know where I’m going, but.

Yeah. Yeah. So, so, you know here, there was a clear, like, it felt like we were working with a partner, you know, to achieve the same goal as insuring, like, minimal exposure.

No parts.

So kudos for sure.

Yeah, I I also use on a site of I use order the solid WP products for me I themes and patch that works with them too. So I’ve got relationships there all the way through. So I I truly understand I and I’ve had all of her on the show and some of the stuff on the show. So I I appreciate those guys so much. So thank you for mentioning that now how? Many do you. Mind sharing. And if you don’t want to, that’s OK in the ballpark. How many users or free miss do? You have right now.

When you say users, do you mean like software sellers?

Yeah. How many software sellers do? You have.

Let’s say 4 figures.

OK.

And live the imagination of people start working.

Yeah, yeah, that’s more fun. Yeah. Has there been any feature that your software sellers have asked you to put in that you’re working on in a road map that you can check?

Well, when you deal with thousands of product people, there is a lot of ideas. There’s constantly ideas. We we are working on, you know, prioritization for 2024, like the things that we know for sure that will happen. We already you know the ball is rolling. We’re revamping the checkout of premium. Which is a big thing, not only modernizing it, we actually released phase one today, announce it and send an e-mail. Thank you. Thank you. It’s just the first phase where we just tweak like making it look more modern. The second phase will be.

You’re right.

Which we again work with the Community, you know, received a lot of feedback, not only. More modern, but also should be more better converting friendlier in terms of the experience and a lot of other like good things. We also want in 24 to expand. Like today, you can already sell whatever software you want for freemium. But the terminology and some of the experience the developer experience is targeted to WordPress because that’s how we started. We do want to in 24 to focus on or to expand into SAS to supporting like.

Oh, that’s cool.

Yeah, thank you to natively support SAS. Which is a slightly different experience. It means putting more emphasis on the API documentation and other things that, like with framing is sorry. With WordPress you know we we offer an SDK and like you get everything out of the. Box you don’t need. To like too much integrations, etcetera. It’s sass like every sass is slightly different even though there is a lot of like. Like patterns and like similar features that SAS need but you you can’t really offer one is the key for everyone. Yeah. So you need to have a very good API, documentation, other things. So this year we spent a lot of. Ours talking with SAS creators, some of them familiar with frumious and using it, or it’s done just to understand. How would the how they envision the perfect kind of solution also you know understanding what. Gaps that the current solutions out there have to see if we can, you know, offer something better. And what would be better? And I’m pretty confident in what we are going to do. So that will be a big one for 24. There are more things, but yeah, let’s let’s stop here.

We’ll we’ll just have to get you back to talk about the book and the more things down. The road, right, that’s, you know always right.

Sure. Happy to do that.

Yeah, and. Is there anything else you’d like to add about from us, or why somebody should look at your solution versus another solution?

I would say you know our value per position. Pretty simple. You can make more money with premiums with less headache. Premiums is not a solution for everyone. You know there are different styles and different solutions and that’s totally fine. But we do take care of a lot of headaches and pains and allow developers to focus on their product instead of the the like the commercial operation. So this is one thing and the second thing I. Will just give. A shout out to our podcast. We also have one. It’s relatively new, if you don’t mind. That’s OK.

Please do please do. Sharing is the way what we do here.

Sharing is caring, right?

So is.

So we have a podcast called Plugin dot FM which is specifically focused on software creators. So we bring other product, people, creators and cover topics. That are that those guests had unique insights and first hand experiences and we dive into actionable tips and practices, how you can basically apply those things in your business. So this is plug in FM.

Yeah, that is so awesome. And since we talked the last time, I should tell you it’s already in my podcast app. So I’m I’m in this. We’re doing that. If somebody wants to get a hold. Of you to talk. Entrepreneurship, about freeness about should they? Use your product. How’s the best way?

Twitter’s ***** felt. One simple as that, if you want to add it to show notes or something, I don’t know if you have it, but like my VMS are open, I read every VM even if we’re not connected or something.

Vova, thank you very much for joining us and have an amazing day.

Thank you. It was a pleasure. Thanks.