Episode 500 A WS Forms Update With Mark Westguard

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Show Summary

This Episode is deciated to Tiz Marrone for how she inspires me.

This podcast episode celebrates the 500th episode of the SDM show, featuring an interview with Mark Westgard of WS Forms. The conversation centers on the growth of WS Forms, including new features like a CSS styler and numerous integrations. They also discuss challenges faced by small businesses in the WordPress community, such as dealing with spam and maintaining website security. The podcast touches on the importance of community engagement and the increasing impact of AI on both business and security. Finally, the episode reflects on the time and effort involved in building a successful business and product.

Show Transcript

Hey everybody, Rob Cairns here and today I’ve got my good friend Mr. Mark Westguard with me from WS Forms. Hey Mark, thank you for

Hey Rob, how are you?

Doing good. This is like a special episode. I normally anybody listen this podcast knows I normally don’t mention the episode number except for Ke numbers. This is episode 500 if you can believe that. So, that’s kind of it’s been a long

That’s amazing.

Long road. Thank you. I appreciate it. You know, it helps when you’ve got people like our mutual friend who introduced us, Mr. Bob Dunn in the community.

You’ve got um I’m good friends with Joe Cassabono. Um and uh Joe and I recently did a a chat about podcasting. I I kind of love podcasting. I was sharing with you before we went to record. I started this at the start of co and I figured I was going to do oh five or six interviews because I was bored and then six became 15 became 30 and then I hit a hundred and said, “Oh god, do we have something going on here?” Then I hit two. Then I hit three. Then I and now I’ve hit five. And what does a podcaster do that’s already busy? He starts another podcast which I also did recently. So there you go.

Kind of

episode 501 is coming.

Yes, it is.

You’ll soon be I feel like I should be interviewing you for this one.

It’s funny because most people who podcast and Bob’s a little different. Bob does short turnaround times I think on most of his show.

Mhm.

And you’re uh now a regular co-host with Bob. Congratulations, by the way.

Thank you. Yeah, looking forward to that.

I heard that heard that a couple weeks ago. It’s I think it’s been announced on X and uh other channels uh pretty publicly recently, but uh

yeah. Yeah,

somebody some little birdie told me. So

now we’ve just got to come up with stuff to talk about.

Well, that that shouldn’t be awful. Um but I think part of it is what podcasting is. Truthfully, a lot of it’s organization. Um, I’ve got a a client right now where I’m I’m helping them get going with a podcast. And I said, you know, every episode’s like five to six hours of work. And uh the nice thing about co-hosting is you don’t have to do any of the production. You don’t have to

We just do the talking. Bob does all the hard work.

Yeah. You’ve got this figured out, don’t you?

I’m looking forward to We’re going to be talking about um basically small businesses in the WordPress space. I’ve always had a passion to help people out. There’s a lot of newcomers that come into the space and it’s a a big old space. There’s a lot of big names out there and it can be difficult and challenging to get your name recognized. So, um looking forward to talking to some small businesses that I know and maybe some new ones I don’t know as well. Yeah,

I think the important thing about small businesses is to get involved in the community. Absolutely.

Stay out of what I call the crap the s*** show and the drama. Like just

Yeah, I can use those words because it’s my show, right?

It’s your show. Yeah. And the show 500 as well. So

yeah, but but really like get involved in the community. Go to an event, get online, join some of these online groups where they have open discussions. Um one of one of my favorite online groups is um a group that Brian Gardner over at uh WP Engine uh called that build mode on Friday. So, you know, hats off to Brian and his team

for doing that for us. And all we talked about is blocks and blockbased themes and concerns with that.

And it’s a pretty open group. We actually that group we don’t report because we have policy with happens in build mode stays in build mode happens in Vegas but seems to

but it’s just um it’s just an interesting group and I think people genuinely care about each other and

that’s something that makes our space different, right?

Yeah. I’ve never worked in an industry that has more people that want to help you out. It’s genuinely uh heartwarming and just going to a workout camp and talking to people is is so rewarding. You know, you can be standing at the bar and next thing you know, you’ve built a relationship with somebody and you’re working on something together. I think that that face to face sometimes can be really um powerful. Um I do a lot of stuff online like everybody else, but actually going to an event I think has really helped me out. That’s why I’ve tried to give back by sponsoring and the at work camp US I did um just to get together, just got people together to have a drink, have some food. Um and a lot of the people I already knew there, but it was just nice to you know reaffirm those relationships and say hello to friends and keep keep that relationship going. And and what tends to happen then is if you do do something uh with your product, they inevitably want to talk about it to their audience because they want content as well. So, um yeah, it’s it it takes time. It’s you know, if if you’re if you’re a bootstrap business and you don’t have hundreds of thousands of dollars for marketing to to spend, then you’re going to be relying on other people to help get the word out there. Um but there’s no no better place to do it than the WordPress community in my opinion.

No, I agree with it. What I would say is a lot of people don’t understand this stuff takes time, right? So like

yeah,

I look at you, I look at our friend Vikas over at Instant WP, he’s another one, right? He’s kind of started bootstrapping his business.

Now I look at people like that and uh I say, “Hey, you know, these guys have done it right. They’ve gone and they’ve built those relationships and there’s I mean I walked into an advance last month uh with uh uh one of the hosting companies out of Montreal WCC and I run into people that knew me because of my in the community, not because they knew me personally. And that happens to me every event I ever walk into because

like you I’m pretty forefront in the community and there’s a lot of work still to be done and we got to keep building those relationships.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And um I think you’ve got to if you’re going to go in into developing a product or anything. I mean, it could be starting a new podcast or whatever. Um, you know, it’s going to take time to build. It took me two years to get any kind of traction with WS form. It, you know, I was the new kid on the block and everyone’s like, who’s this? And, um, it it it takes time to build those relationships and and and build awareness in in the community. Um, and even then, you know, you’re only scratching the surface. Going to a work camp, you’re you’re scratching the absolute tip of the apex of the pyramid when or going to a work camp in terms of WordPress users.

So, there are other avenues you have to look at to to try and build build on that. But, um very it’s really rewarding, you know, when you when you get it to a point where it’s it’s ticking over nicely and um you know, people start to recognize the product and and also like word of mouth recommendations is is incredibly rewarding when somebody says, “Hey, you know, use this product. I’m using it.” Um having people do that and writing positive reviews about your product is is uh it’s great. Um, I love it. I love every day of it.

Yeah, I agree. It’s And your product’s growing. I mean, we were we were talking before we went to ERA, but your new styler and, you know,

this out, it will probably already be out.

U, what would you say is the number one feature in your new styler?

Uh, probably the move to using CSS variables all the way through. Um, which will make styling a lot easier. Um, so there’s several ways you can style using that. You can use the styler which will set those CSS variables for you and change the colors for you. But if you’re using a third party product for styling your site, maybe like ACSS, then it integrates in with those as well. So, um you’ve got a lot of flexibility on how you can design your forms and it’s something I’ve been meaning to do for for so long. Finally got round to it and everyone’s going, “Yay, you know, it last. It’s been done.” And um I think it’s really going to take the product to to another level. It’s one of the things you know, we were relying on the customized tool in WordPress for a long time just because that’s what was out there when we first built WS form and um technologies moved along. We’ve listened to our customers and we’ve built that styler to to help them out and they’re really we’ve actually been beta testing it with some customers and they’re loving what they’re seeing. So, um yeah, by the time this is out, it should be launched and ready and everyone will be going finally.

Yeah, I’m already going finally seeing so it’s a Google gag and and the video and all the work you’re doing, you should be commended. Like, it’s to me, and I’m not saying this just cuz you’re on the show and you’ve been on the show multiple times, uh it’s the easiest form builder to to build. And like I would encourage anybody who’s using WS forms to uh make sure you sign up free Cloudflare Turnstyle account and just be done with the spam. Just get it.

That’s what I tell everyone. They they contact me saying, “This isn’t working.” You know, like a capture and it’s because they’ve got recapture loading three times on the page. Um, and I just say just install Clavia Turnstyle. It works. It’s always my recommendation and it does work. It’s great.

The only drawback with Cloud for Turnstyle is you have to have you can only install one website per free account, right? So you got to if you got multiple websites, you have multiple emails. But that’s

their inconvenience at the end of

Yeah, I can’t remember the limits on it to be honest and I don’t know whether it’s always changing things, aren’t they? Um, but yeah, I use on on my site and it works great. Um I’ve never had any trouble with it.

Um the spam curtails by dramatic. I had um a couple Canadian political writing association sites one we were talking about and the minute they put cloud for turnstyle on their contact form their their stupid spam like disappeared overnight and

and I swear they were getting like a hundred bots a day. Like they were the bots were bored. Yeah, there are even bots nowadays that aren’t bots. They’re physically people sitting there typing in forms at me. I just I don’t understand how they’re getting paid or why they do it. But uh yes, it’s um it’s a constant battle, isn’t it? Form spam and turnstyle helps. Um you know, obviously AI is is is not helping with it because it’s able to solve these things and and get stuff through. There’s so many different levels you can do, but I I like having just, you know, Cloudflare on the front end. my site as well to stop certain traffic coming through in the first place before it even hits the form. So,

y

um but yeah, it’s we we make sure that the spam protection because we have two versions of WS form. There’s a light edition which is free and then we have our pro edition and we’ve made sure that that all the spam features are available in both of those because it’s so important to to try and prevent that kind of stuff.

Yeah.

Just trying to think integrations you up to. What’s the number now? I I know that they’re huge. I was looking at them. I

think it’s about 95 something like that.

Yeah, it’s growing, right? It’s like growing.

Yeah. Yeah. And we’ve got a we’ve got a new payment in I don’t don’t think I’m allowed to talk about it yet, but we have a new payment integration coming um which is going to be um quite cool because it’s it’s um quite a featurerich payment integration and um that’s about all I can say about it at the moment. Completely. Yeah. So, there’s been a lot of other stuff that we’ve been working on besides a starter in the in the background. But yeah, yeah, those those integrations are always always growing. We always get suggestions for new ones and um we’ve got most of the major ones done, you know, like Salesforce, Mailchimp, all that kind of stuff. Um but our integrations go a little bit further than other form plugins as you know. You know, you click on add and it builds a form for you, which the others don’t and it auto maps everything.

Um so yeah, just continual development. Rob, you know, keeps me busy. It does. And and then you’ve got clients to manage to in between A and B.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Still doing a little bit of agency work, but that’s down to one client now. I mean, I still do a bunch of hosting for some companies. Um but uh yeah, a WS form is definitely now my day job, which is where I wanted to get to and um yeah, thankful for it.

Yeah. And and you’ve met some amazing people. Both of us are mutual friends with Adrian Toby over at Groundhog.

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Excuse me. Um, yeah, love Adrian, love his product as well. His product’s amazing. Um, and it just like like me, he’s always tinkering and adding stuff to to Groundhog and making it better. And, um, yeah, we’re actually about to do some fun stuff together. Um, we’re going to be doing some, you know, some articles about how you can use our products together because we have a deep integration with Groundhog

and, um, looking forward to doing some more fun stuff with him to, you know, help people use our products mutually. You know, it’s funny. Yesterday I was looking at uh the IT team security list. Oh, the dreaded security list and you know, you know, from talking to me, that’s a bit of my bag.

Yes.

And sites for security.

Yes, you do.

You know what I was thinking? I don’t think I’ve seen WS forms on a security list ever to be honest. I

No, it’s on there. It’s on there.

Yeah. I mean, like any plugin that this big, you know? I mean, it’s it’s huge. under the hood. Um there there’s going to be security issues that come up and we fix them. I mean, obviously if we get a security notification, I fix it probably within an hour to make sure it’s patched, but it’s usually silly little things, you know, like you’ve got to be logged in, you you’ve got to put this particular thing in a query. I mean, you’ve got to know about it to and usually it’s stuff that only an admin user would be able to do. Um but yeah, we take security issues seriously just like every other plug-in company should. And um uh you know if if something comes up we fix it pretty quickly. We’re quite close with patchack you know they we’re on their um yeah what it’s called now where you can submit the security issues but they they’ve got a submission process for doing that kind of stuff and we reach out if anything it’s like very infrequent like once or twice a year maybe but if it does come up we we jump on it quickly.

Yeah. Oliver said and his group do an amazing job over there and uh

I’m kind of all in with um uh uh solid WP security and those who don’t know

yeah

solid WP is based on a patch stack backend so okay

a lot of people don’t know that but same

I

I did not know that yeah

I will not mention a certain security firm that starts with a W on this podcast

and I don’t mean WS forms by the way you can

no I’m not getting into security uh we’ll we’ll deal with it but I’m not getting into that realm That’s a that’s a whole different bag.

And I think I think a lot of it is is honestly it’s who you trust. Like do you trust

your plug-in vendor i.e. you

to for a fix pretty quick. And I

think you have I know Adrian’s had a couple problems. Not to single Adrian out, but I can um over over at Groundhog where he’s shown up on that list a couple times. Not in a long time.

Yeah. I mean, you know, it’s part of programming. It’s part of life. And um that these these companies like to kind of make a little bit of a song and dance about it, but that’s that’s their job, right? Um and uh if you look on those list, pretty much every major plug-in is going to be on there. Um the main thing is are they fixing it? Are they addressing it? Are they jumping on it?

Um and I’m actually thankful for the people that look for those bugs and um call them out and and it makes the product better at the end of the day. So yeah, I’m all for it.

I think part of the problem too is AI making that a lot difficult right now. I mean, it’s funny before we went to record, I was reading an article about Bitcoin scams and

they were talking about what they’re doing is creating videos and they’re dropping in people like Bill Clinton and

Johnson and they’re using AI to generate all these videos

to give public the impression that he’s

endorsed the product and they have nothing to do with it.

No, they’ve done nothing about it.

Was um a Canadian couple that was scammed out of $400,000 Canadian this week.

Yeah, it’s it’s they they they prey on the vulnerable, don’t they? And um yeah, I mean, I guess one thing that worries me a little bit about AI is just people taking code that it generates on face value and then sticking it into a plugin or a theme or even their functions PHP file or their code snippet. Um it doesn’t always take into account security. So, you know, inputs may not be sanitized, outputs might not be escaped. So, um yeah, that’s that’s a little bit worrying. I’m seeing a lot of plugins pop up and they’re like, “Yeah, I made this 100% from from uh Chat GPT.” Um and who knows, you know, how well the code’s written under underneath. So, um I’m sure that’s going to put some pressure on the plug-in review team at WordPress.

Um yeah. and WS forms. You’ve done some AI integration with WS forms already, I believe.

Yeah, absolutely.

Planning on doing some more and where’s that going?

Uh, so we keep up to date with OpenAI and all the new models that are coming out. So, there’s a couple of things that it does. First of all, you can actually build a form just by typing in what you want and it’ll build a form for you. So, you can say, you know, I want a dog adoption form and it spits it out. Um, and it does things like setting all the labels, the help text, it even fills out select drop downs and checkboxes and that kind kind of stuff. It’s quite cool. And then the other side of it is you can actually use the OpenAI API to use their features on your form. So, for example, you could ask it to create a blog post image or an avatar image or you could make it write a blog post and it’ll go off get the blog post and insert it into the form. Um, so yeah, and then there are there are some other like competitors to OpenAI that I’d like to have a look at and see if we can get an integration done with them eventually. Um, so it’s it’s a fastm moving area. We jumped on OpenAI very early. We were one of the first that did um you know I think we were the first that did the OpenAI form generator. U we announced that God almost two years ago now I think

yeah so um yeah just keeping on top of everything and um keeping up with the technology we want to embrace it.

It’s actually interesting when you look at AI did you know that the adoption of edge has actually gone up and not down because of co-pilot and the Uh, okay.

And the other one that’s gone down dramatically, believe it or not, is Firefox. Firefox is down to less than 5% the market, if not less, right now.

Wow.

They don’t have any direct AI integration.

No. Yeah. I mean, I I use Firefox for testing, but I admit I’m still just I I just use Chrome. I used to use Firefox all the time, and I always used to use Safari, and they kind of got to a point where they were just so slow and hogging memory. Um, I’m sure they’re better now. I’m not sure. Sure. But then I just thought, you know, I’m going to just go with Chrome and I’ve been using it ever. I guess I’m just so used to the I used the browser inspector all day long. So, um I’m just kind of used to it now.

Well, I was saying to you before we went, “If I’ve got one browser on this Windows laptop, I’ve got nine. You know, it’s gotten and you know, every time I try new browser, I mean, I’ve tried Art. I’ve got Brave on here, which is Chromium based. So is Arc.

Yeah.

I’ve tried everything under the sun. And I almost always end back uh back to Edge and Google matter what.

Yeah. Yeah. Whatever you’re used to, right? I mean, I learned a lot of people use those, you know, privacy focused. I I think Google’s got more data on me than I do, so I’ve kind of given up.

I have too. And uh that’s another issue. Um forms in uh Europe, we got to go there because we all know the European Economic Union has whole new pile of rules. Does it ever cause you any concern?

No. I mean, we’ve we’ve always been, you know, privy to like GDPR and stuff like that um on on the forms. So, um for me, the biggest thing is like translating forms and things like that for other countries. So, but yeah, on the also like accessibility as well, we’re um the new release we’re doing version 110 has a lot of uh new accessibility stuff added to it. I’ve been working with Jen Hairs uh about all that stuff and um

she is oh she has so much knowledge in the accessibility realm and I I have been setting up time with her just sitting down with her and she’s been given some fantastic advice. She within 5 minutes I’ve got my hours worth. I’m just like okay I need a month to to go through this but uh she’s at the forefront of accessibility. be um helping WS WS form out with just continual improvement. I mean, it’s just an ongoing thing. It’s not something that you can do overnight. Um we’ve always been good on accessibility. That’s one of been one of our main selling points, but there’s always more that we can do. And um yeah, so that’s that’s probably our our biggest thing right now is just, you know, continue working with her on that front for all those those kind of rules because accessibility is obviously always important, but legally it’s becoming more more important as well. So,

yeah, in Ontario certainly, like if you’re with a public company that’s government run, that’s a bit of an issue. Um,

mandated as of a couple years ago, they all had to be accessible websites, newsletters, believe it or not, another thing.

Yep. Yep.

That’s a challenge. Um, and uh, I think accessibility has some other benefits too, like SEO and other benefits that come out of it as well, which we

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I Accility is good for everyone and not just people that have a need for accessibility, but if you make your site accessible, it makes it easier to use.

So, um, yeah, we do all the usual stuff like high contrast colors and making sure all the ARIA tags are there behind the scenes and making sure that those behave the way that they should, you know, it’s not not just a case of putting ARIA tags on your form, but they actually have to behave properly, you know. So, um, yeah, and it’s uh I I quite quite enjoy actually um about it and implementing it and making the product better.

Y that’s good. Um do you have anything you’re planning that you can ease or share or beyond beyond the payment uh integration coming?

Um yeah, so we’ve got uh an integration with WPML coming. Um that one’s been a long time coming because we have our forms are as you know are quite a bit more complicated than just your regular form builder. They can do a lot more. So because of those data types, that’s been a little bit of a challenge with things like WPML in in terms of being able to translate those using their tools.

Um, but we’re almost there with that. So, that’s going to be the next priority after the Styler. And as I say, Styler hopefully coming out in the next few weeks. So, looking forward to that. Um, and then really it’s going to be a case of going to our feature request list from our users, which is huge, and um, picking the next next big thing. I’ve got some ideas that I’m not going to dulge. I’m going to I’ve given you WPML, but uh there’s there’s all sorts of stuff that we could be working on, you know, and and the further down the the line we get, things become more and more niche, you know. Um but there are we have some great ideas that come from our customers and we had one the other day. I forget what it was now. What was it? Um I can’t remember. But somebody just made a suggestion and I thought, you know what, I can do that in about 10 minutes. So I just I just did it cuz I thought that’s brilliant and we can use that elsewhere in the plug-in. So, I know what it was. It was it was limiting people submitting, but only if they’re logged in. So, we just added a checkbox for that and added it. So, you know, some stuff we can do quickly. Other stuff takes a lot more time to develop. The styler, for example, that’s taken, I want to say, four or five months and tens of thousands of lines of of rewrite. So, that’s why that one’s taken a little bit of time to to get out. Other things can be a 10-minute job, and we can help someone’s project out with it, and we will implement it.

Yeah. And the only the only thing about doing a major rewrite for the styler is the code should get better, not worse as you go. You would hope, right?

I hope so. Yeah.

No, we’ve gone through every line of CSS on the client side where the form is and um we’ve completely re rewritten it. So um it it’s going to be a lot cleaner. It’s we we’re also dynamically loading the styling now. So if you don’t have certain field types on your form, it’s not going to load the CSS for that field type. So, um it’s going to make the output of WS form even cleaner than it is today.

Yeah, that’s true. And it’s pretty lightweight. Like I would say even a pro version. I was looking at my site today, I’m running one, two, three, four WS forms extensions. So, I’ve got uh

Yeah, it’s pretty pretty lightweight. Yeah, it’s um and that’s that’s a continual thing that we’re working on as well is just getting the the the overhead down as much as pos because it does so much, you know, it’s it’s it’s not it’s not a contact form seven. Um it gets used a lot on some quite complicated for I mean incredibly complicated for some of them obviously and um because of that you know there is going to be a slightly lower larger overhead um on the core files but we’ve done a lot to split that up. So just for just for example like a a phone field um it will only load JavaScript for that. If you’ve got a phone field on the form, it’ll only load the CSS for that field if it’s on the form. And that that keeps the file sizes down. So, we we take into account like all this dynamic in queuing stuff that we do that that really helps speed things up. So, everything we can do to to speed the product up and there’s, you know, more to come. We’ll we’ll keep improving it.

Yeah. Thanks, Mark. Thanks for uh sharing a little bit of what you got going on, jumping on. You know, it’s been it’s been a fun journey, I’ll I’ll say the least. I You’ve been there for a lot of it.

I’ve enjoyed it, too. Like I I was going to say I was thinking the other day, which ones do I like the most? Well, the Groundhog integration I’ve used with clients. Um

I certainly use the HubSpot integration for myself. Uh

contacts go right to a CRM.

I’ve used the mail poet integration many time.

Um uh what am I I’m

Google Sheets is the one thing you were using recently.

Oh, I’m still using like I have a massive form I’m designing for a dating site and uh it’s it’s all checkboxes. Um yeah,

for a singles dating service and Google Sheets coming into play on that one big time.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The Google Sheets one is goo Google’s become more and more complicated to work with recently. They’ve been tying down on scopes for when we you know we connect to it which means that we don’t have access to stuff that we used to have access to. So it’s become a little bit more complicated because one of the things that I’ve always tried to do with the integrations is if you click add and then you choose a list or a template from your integration WS form builds a form for you. That’s always been a big selling point on it and it auto maps everything birectionally

except with Google Sheets.

Except with Google Sheets now because they’ve forbidden access to Google Drive. So doesn’t it doesn’t make it quite as fun to use, but underlying it still works perfectly fine. But I’m finding that with a lot of Google stuff. I don’t even use Google Analytics anymore. It just became too complicated to use.

Well, yeah, I think uh Google Analytics 4 made a mess of the world and uh

yeah,

the average site owner doesn’t even need all those analytics. They want to know how many people are going to what pages and and so

Exactly. Yeah. And I think that’s why other products like Fathom, for example, have become popular. because they’re just easy out of the box solutions to use and Google’s just so complicated. I mean, even when we we have Google conversion stuff built into the plug-in um using the data layer and everything and even that was complicated to to get working and then people trying to use it are just like it’s not working and it it’s it’s over complicated in my op I can I can see why they’ve done a lot of what they’ve done. It’s really made it flexible but for 99.9% of their users it’s so complicated to implement and I think that’s why people are steering away from it.

So true. Hey Mark, if somebody wants WS forums, best spots probably the website. And

where’s the where’s the best way to get a hold of you? Because I happen to know you are on this site called Boo Sky right now too as well.

I know. Yeah, it’s that thing is blowing up, isn’t it?

Um yeah, I’m on I’m on everything. Um usually at Westguard um or at WS_form on Blue I think it’s at wsform.com and then I think mine is westgard.co.uk I think. I think I put my domain in there. So you should be able to find me there. But yeah on all the type in Westgard market. There aren’t many Westgars on the planet. So wg a r.

Have you avoided bastardon? Are you there too?

I think I’m there somewhere but um pro probably on a server that’s been discontinued.

Yeah, it sounds like sounds like our friend Nathan Wrigley’s old server right.

Probably that from Yeah. Yeah. been deleted.

Uh I think he’s been trying to delete some people for years. So there you go.

That’s the way you did it. Yeah. He just deleted me the entire server just to get rid of me.

Love Nathan.

Me too. Thanks for joining me, Mark. Have a wonderful day. And uh I hope 2025 is a good year for you and WS forms

and and I hope it is for you, too. And congratulations on episode 500. This is awesome. Thank you, sir. Have a great day. Bye-bye.

You too. Bye.