Episode 87: How to Podcast with Bob Dunn

Show Notes

Episode 87



Hey, y’all Rob Cairns here, and the founder, CEO and Chief creator amazing ideas that stunning Digital Marketing. Today I thought we’d do something a little different. I thought it sit down with my good friend Bob Dunn, Bob WP and WordPress circles. We talk about how to create a podcast, and why podcasting and what to look for in a podcast. Bob and I have been friends for over 12 years online. So I hope you enjoyed this really interesting conversation that Bob and I had last week. So stay tuned for the interview.



Morning, everybody, Rob Cairns, here I am here with a gentleman that I’ve known probably for 10 or 12 years online. We’ve spoken many times. So consider my good friend. We like to talk about everything. He’s well known in the WordPress space is dot Bob WP, and doesn’t live in the WooCommerce space. Good morning, Bob. How you doing today?



I’m doing great. Rob. It’s Yeah, I’m thinking, you know, it took us 10 or 12 years to get on a podcast together. But we did it



only that long. And we you know, as funny I was thinking the other day, we’re, you know, we’ve known each other back even before the headway days and all of that. And we’ve we’ve been through some amazing discussions over the years. And we’ve also been through some, some really depressing violent fights over the years there, you know, you and I both, both in the victim of trolls and garbage and all of that over the years. Isn’t that true?



Yeah, it’s, um, it’s a part of the part of the deal, I guess. So you know, you just just move on. And I’m glad to have you here.



And I thought we’d do something different. I mean, you’re well known in the WooCommerce space. And you know, you do the do the loop podcasts, which were talking before we started recording how much eidensohn for resellers, because I’m a bit of a learning junkie, but what I thought we talk about today’s all about podcasting, because the one thing that’s happening to pandemic is podcasts have gone up by 1015 20%. Listening, if you bothered to listen to the statistics, right?



So, right, yeah, and I was looking at that. And it was interesting, because they were also talking about how there was this kind of area where it was going up, but then there was a people that normally listen to it on commute sites, you know, in their car, on the subway, whatever. And, and whether those people were actually transitioning to listening at home, or it was didn’t quite fit in their, you know, their workflow or their life flow at home. But then, like you said, it grew because all these other people were now at home, and they’re like, oh, maybe I should listen to a podcast and see what those are like.



Yeah, the way the way I typically Listen, I think you and I’ve talked about this is, I’m a walker. So I’ve already gone for a 5k block this morning. And I had a podcast in one year, actually one of yours, not your last one one before. And I was listening to some other stuff just to catch up. And I do that, but also podcasts as background when I’m working. I can’t work in silence. So I’ve got something on. And when the pandemic started, my wife said, suddenly said to Jill, what is Rob going to do with those sports? And she said, he’ll just listen to more podcasts.



Yeah, and I’m just the opposite. I can’t listen to a podcast. I mean, I can do it when I’m doing things like walking or driving or something like that. But I can’t when I’m working. I get too distracted between the two and I just get like, you know, I’m looking at one arm, I totally lose and say, oh, what did they just say, you know, so. So I’m just the opposite on that part.



And I’m just gonna share with our listeners. I read an interesting stat this week. And I actually I think Facebook posted more Canadians per percentage of population listened to podcasts and Americans interest. And we’re talking like 10%, from what I read



is interesting. And you know, you wonder what, you know, that just um, yeah, I don’t know, I think all the Americans were all on Twitter or something. I don’t know. I mean, following the press in the United States. I’m sorry. Yeah, that’s Yeah. Yeah, some are,



I guess. Yeah. Yeah. So let’s kind of jump in I needed decision. I guess somebody year and a half ago. I think I talked to him about this. And I said, you know, Bob, I’m tired of blogging. And I really wish I’d written 10,000 blog posts in 10 years, and I was I was like, gut, and I’ve done everything from the 30 day blog challenges to be really provoked. challenges. And I said, You’re not I should just start podcasting. And I haven’t written honestly a full blog, and then I’m awful. I don’t do show notes, which, depending on who you talk to, you should or should not do. And people say, well, SEO and I basically have taken the approach that if I want to run traffic, I’ll just pay for ads and become, like, I’m doing what I want to do. But why did you get into podcasting to start?



You know, it’s, it goes way back, because I took a podcasting workshop in Seattle in about 2008. And I had two colleagues, one of them was a podcaster for several years before that, so she was podcasting. Like, you know, back way back. And they, they were encouraged me encouraging me to podcast, they just said, you know, your content guy, Bob, you got to, you got to get into this, you know, you got the boys for it, which was, you know, a good enough reason, but they were, you know, they were saying, giving me all the facts, like, you got to do this. Well, I took the workshop, and it was really cool was fascinating. And at that time, I was still doing the other business that was doing design. And you know, it just didn’t fit in, I thought, well, this is something I just kind of plant on the back of my head. And, and it always came to the surface, but I just wasn’t ready ever ready to do it. I just thought, What am I going to do? It wasn’t like, I’m going to do this because my friends say I should do it. I’ve got to kind of figure this out. So 2014 is when I did my first one. And it was it was called WP breakdown. I do remember it fondly. Yes. And and it was you know, I named it because I thought it was very humorous because it was breaking down a short 1015 minute podcast that broke down something, WordPress, but then I thought Hi, kind of funny because you’re having to WordPress break down at the same time, and you want to listen to this. So I thought it was a play on words. And I did that for about 14 months. And it just became I was thinking, I feel like I’m just regurgitating what I’m doing on my blog. I mean, I was it just didn’t jive with me. I mean, it was okay. And I thought, Oh, I’m just listening to myself week after week. And I. So I pushed that aside and said, I’m stopping this sucker. And I’m need to just sit and wait till something hits me, I want to start it again. But I’ve got to kind of wait for that moment. Because I’m just not going to jump into it again.



It’s funny, because you don’t want to feel like you’re regurgitating. But you also want to add value, and I think it comes down to is, you know, podcasting. He can take it on the go. I don’t know how many times I even take video presentations. And I say I like convert them to an audio and that just come with me. Right? It’s just, it’s just easier. And me only the numbers are growing like he used to be. It was hard to get traction on the blog when they tell you it’s hard to get traction on a new podcast now. Really? Oh, yeah. Yeah. And it’s just because, you know, it’s more people jumping in how do you get traction on a podcast? You know, for me?



I think that first of all, I don’t worry about it. Kind of like you with SEO? You know, I don’t know. Yeah, don’t worry about it. either. I go through the motions, mechanically grows, you know what that is, I mean, I’ll sit there and obsess over it. I think it’s, if you go into it, just worrying about the numbers, you’re gonna kill yourself, that’s for sure. You got to gain traction by coming into it. And you know, it’s the same old adage that we had in blogging way back in the day, you got to have some kind of following. You got to have some people already interested. You can’t just expect something out of the blue. I mean, you can if you don’t care about traction, I mean, you can do whatever you want. As far as a podcast, there’s no limits. But if you’re looking for that, you got to have something some audience out there already hoping to gather, you know, to grow into it. And then from there, it’s just yeah, it’s I almost want to say it’s a crapshoot, you know, because it really in a sense, is you don’t know what kind of traction you’re going to get. You don’t know what kind of audience and then you got to start evaluating it and saying, you know, am I doing this for this reason? What am I doing it for? What are the end results is it you know, six months still doing what I want it to do? As long as it’s still doing what you want it to do then go on? Is it delivering? You know, what you feels valuable to the listeners. So yeah, the attractions, a tough one and i think is just is consistency. And, you know, just like, how I was used to Satan blogging, you know, the more consistent the more people can come on come to depend that show coming on, you know, whenever and I’ve messed up in that myself, I’ve been taking breaks, and you know, and that shows when I do it. And so it’s a commitment and that traction can be done in a lot of different ways. I mean, you know, you’re gonna find your groove, it’s, you know, whether it’s getting it out more on social, whether it’s, you know, repurposing it, there’s all sorts of ways you can do it. It’s just, you just got to find the right tool for you, and something that you can actually do, and that dream of doing, and then try it and then just say, Oh, it’s too much too much work.



Yeah, it’s so true. And I, and I think it’s also finding the attraction for the right market. So that’s the more important thing. So I always get comments from clients, or friends, or even people saying, Oh, that was a good topic that hit me. And if I hit the right market, I really don’t care if my numbers of 20,000 or 30,000. It’s hitting the right people. And one of the reasons I wanted to do this topic for a few days, I’ve had three or four people say to me lately, why why podcasting? And why you doing that, and why I’ve done that. And I said, Oh, I know the perfect person to talk to so. I mean, we’re laughing about but this is nothing like you and I haven’t talked about so. So as you go through attraction, the other problem people have with podcasting is choosing that niche. And it’s the same thing I think back in the day of blogging is choosing what you want to talk about isn’t



right, right. And I think, you know, when I start, what ended up happening with my podcast after that first one, after the 14 months is when I decided that, well, I’m gonna do a WooCommerce podcast. And it was, you know, it just seemed Okay, this, this seems like a good thing to do. You know, I’m my content has been leaning towards that for a while I build up an audience. And so I started that as a do the boot podcast and about, I don’t know, 1520 episodes into I changed over to the WP e commerce show, because at that point, I decided I wanted a little stretch it out a little bit beyond WooCommerce, I want to talk to some other people that, you know, because e commerce is so huge. I mean, it’s just covering so many facets. And I did that for some time. But then I started to do the woo backup as a separate podcast. And I ended up after four years stopping the WP commerce show cuz I did want to niche down again. So for me, it was testing the waters, it was seeing where you were, where’s it going? That one was, I think deciding and somebody told me, asked me once they said, how do you start a podcast? What do you what do you What’s the first thing you do? And I say, first thing you do is you ask, you know, why in the heck am I doing it? You know? And then then when you’ve kind of decided that, then, you know, do I have the resources to do it. It does take work. And it depends how much time and money you’re willing to put into. So you know, it’s it, there’s that big hump. And then I tell them three months down the road, six months down the road, revisit it and say, is it worth the time I’m putting in it? And am I still doing it for the reason I started out to do it for and I always use it, I thought of a really weird example. So somebody said, Hey, I want to do a podcast. Why do I want to do a podcast? Well, I like to hear the sound of my voice. Well, what is your goal? For I can listen to myself talk every week. Then, after three months, I go back that person say, Have you met your goal? Are you still enjoying hearing yourself talk every three every week? And they say, yeah, I’m loving it. And if you don’t, you know if that is the only purpose you’re doing a podcast and you don’t care about tracks, you don’t care about anybody else listening. You want to just hear your own voice, and you’re still happy and contents three, six months down the road, then you done what you wanted. I mean, and that’s a really weird example. Because I hope nobody ever has done a podcast for that reason, I’m sure maybe somebody has, but it’s it kind of makes it simple, where you know, it’s just, you’ve got to you got to keep looking at it and saying, you know, is it doing what I’m doing? Or is it just becoming a burden?



Yeah, yeah. And the question is, do I love doing it? Like I you know, we’ve both done podcasts where we interviewed people typically do the Will you interview with your co host and, and I think the one that I really liked was you guys did one with a roundtable about a month ago for a year and I don’t think you touched on anything in final touch. All right, I think it was all the CO hosts together. And yeah, and you had planned in an a sketch and you sort of fill your hands up middle of the podcast and said, basically, I give that guy yeah. And that’s the key is, you know, sometimes things don’t fit, but just if they’re going well go with it, and anybody who wanted a good look on life in the pandemic and stuff actually should go listen to that one because it wasn’t even more focused. It was more just it was for guys, I’m sitting by having coffee to drink and talking about life, right? If Yeah,



yeah, basically that was it. And you know, you get to throw in things a little, little bit of a mix in it, everyone’s it makes it



it makes it fun. So the problem with podcasting, and everybody goes through this we talk real quick. And you and I have talked mics off one you know, live mics and cat on the ledger, which are, as I said, on the soul boat from China. That’s what they get for ordering from us. But But you can’t get a camera in North America right now if you tried with the pandemic or not. So good luck. would you suggest on my genuine I’ve talked about? So can you you know that? Yeah, there’s, you know, I say,



just get something that’s decent quality start out because I mean, some people are in the position to really let me start with this. I think some people obsess over technology. I mean, we do it naturally. And and you know, and I see a lot of people podcasters Oh, look what I got. Oh, look at this look at this interface of soundboard. Look at this. I got you know, $900 headphones in my 12 $100 microphone. And, you know, it reminds me of the days of guys sitting there showing what car they drivers. I knew that was coming. Yeah, I know. It’s something like I have a Porsche I ever Ferrari. You know, I’m a monster machine. Yeah, my engines bigger than yours. It’s kind of crazy, because you can go down that rabbit hole. I mean, you got to test it. You know, I think back when I first did my first podcast, I had a, you know, a microphone that I was using for my videos, and I just used I didn’t have anything more. I’ve, I’ve upgraded over time, because I just wanted to I don’t sit there and tell people you need to have the microphone I’m using. There’s ones out there. The audio, the winner. I think it’s ATR 20. ATR, there’s some ones out there, that really good entry level. And you know, it’s like, as long as you You want some decent quality, I mean, you want a microphone, that’s it, you want to sound decent, you don’t want to be you know, just using your air buds or whatever. And so that is important. But all that those pieces, as far as, you know, starting to get a better microphone. And should I get this kind of Should I get a now needed interface? And should I have something where I could level it out? And I can do this and that? Yeah, you know, that’s all cool. Depending on where you go with your podcast, if you’re getting a lot of people complaining about your podcast sounds like crap, maybe you should think about the heard your sound. But yeah, just start with something that worked for you, you know, and every, and you got to kind of learn those microphones, each one’s a little bit different. Some of them you can move around. I think that’s the biggest challenge is not just getting it but knowing what it does, you know, you don’t start if you move your head a lot, or you know, some people use headset that avoids that, you know, I’ve had to train myself because mine my microphone, I have to be close to it. It’s the kind of microphone where I can’t move away. Or, you know, you basically lose me.



Yeah, do you have? What do you think about things like sharpen some minds? I think you’ve got one thing or some mics.



Yeah, and I think those are good things to have, you know, have a good you know, my first microphone, I had one of those pop filters I put in front of it. Yeah, often comes with the you know, the one that you can put right on the microphone, have an arm have it on an arm, because you know, that really does make it more flexible, you’re able to shift around more and, and and get it right instead of you know, having to sit in on your desk and you’re trying to lean in what people have to realize is that the microphones where you don’t have to speak so closely into them. And I’m not going to get into the technical differences. But those don’t catch the outside sound as much these ones that you have to be close to if you can sit back and it catches you everywhere. You move around on your desk, then it’s didn’t remember it’s catching a lot of other sounds too that you know the lotmore the guy the dog guy, you know which I mean this stuff happens you know deal with the dog though. Don’t freak out I bet at somebody in the middle of interview their their rooster crowed. And it really added a nice ambience to it. I thought, Wow, I’ve never heard at, you know, an actual rooster crow on one of my podcasts, but yeah, yeah, just you know, start with something, you know, get comfortable with something. I mean, you know, on the road mag, rode microphones are odd those you know, those are kind of a next good step as well. There’s some really good ones there. So



I liked it. I actually have a road smartphone mic. So when I’m shooting video off my smartphone on a rake, I put a road mic on top that’s designed for that. I love the robots. And like for those listening, I think the smartphone one I’ve got sells on Amazon for $19. Canadian. So if you’re new us take off 40% You know, that’s not terribly expensive



for a good mic on. No, it isn’t. And you don’t have to break the bank. You know, that’s for sure. The processing the like the roads to deliver. Yeah, yeah. And I had a I had two different ones for the longest time, before I finally kind of bumped up a bit and stuff. But um, you know, it’s Yeah, they, they’re good mics. And I actually sold the one when I changed up and somebody snapped it right up, because you know, they, they last a long time, and they got it down.



So once we get that podcast recorded, do you edit D and not edit? And what tools? Do you like, Freddie? You know,



I do I have a process that most of the time makes people’s head hurt. Because they think, Oh, you know, is this what I always get to say, you know, disclaimer, you don’t have to do this, because I record once I record, you know, and all of it is remotely. So I’m doing interviews, so I’m not recording a lot. Initially, and you know, I’m recording using I use a service called squad cast, then I put it in GarageBand. Now, there’s a lot of different things out there that there’s free software, there’s what’s the one that’s audacity, audacity, which is what I use, actually, you know, and they’re, yeah, they’re, they’re great. They, they do the job. There’s more expensive ones out there you can get, but you know, they do take them. It’s a learning curve. These guys are not like you just open and go, Oh, this isn’t like Microsoft Word. You know, and you just okay, this is how I bold a word this? No, it’s, it takes some, it takes some serious learning. So you need to, you know, and I i actually I do that. And then I after I am done with the actual finishing of all my editing and everything, I send it through a service called off phonics. And what it does is it levels it out and compresses it real nice. Yeah. And it’s just a matter of uploading setting it and letting it do its thing. So yeah, it’s, I choose, I chose in the early days to do my own editing, because I’d like to do it. It’s just another piece of podcasting. That kind of fascinates me. Yeah. And it’s something that I almost say was new, but when I started Yeah, it was new, it was like, this is something different than you know, just pumping down creating content writing blog posts, so but you know, there’s, but there’s a lot of people that, you know, source it out. And I say, you know, don’t, don’t you know, if it’s taken you a long time to do and you’re complaining about it and stuff, you need to again, go back to that, do I have the resources to source it out to somebody and have them do it, I’m a little bit more picky. I don’t know if I could source it out, because I have certain things I want to do with my podcasts. And maybe that’s either good or bad, or however you look at it.



Yeah, I have a I agree with it. Like I’ve gotten to a standard format where I do a quick intro, I’ve got a bit of a 15 second music worked, and I go to an interview or whatever the topic is, and I go to an outro. And the outro basically doesn’t change. So it’s pretty standard. I just preset I drop it in. And I think when we talk about tools, and by the way, we’re talking about editing tools, but this could be any tool that use I’m not a big fan of jumping around tools. So find the one that works for you master it. And by the way, if you have problems finding source, go spend a couple hours on YouTube and learn how to use this tool and take some garbage recordings and just play with them because there’s no better way to learn where to stop and take the recording and just do some



right in you know that’s such a good point you said about knowing the tool because for the longest time, I use Camtasia To podcasts because I’ve used Camtasia for years for video. And I thought, why am I learning something new? I decided that I wanted to learn something new. So I started using GarageBand. More and more, but But yeah, I use that for the longest time for editing. And for that very reason. It was a comfort level, it was something I knew I didn’t have to relearn it.



Yeah. Our mutual friend vendor uses a shout out to the vendor does introduces record Camtasia, I think



Yeah, yeah.



But he, again, what he’s done, what you’ve done, what I’ve done, is we’ve put a process together. So when you edit a podcast, you go through 10 steps. And and, you know, I would suggest to somebody new to write to process down. Yeah, we’ll get used to it. But once you get into a workflow, and that’s what it is a workflow, it gets easier. Right?



Right. It does, you know, and it’s, you know, I put out this lot of time on I record on Tuesdays, and I do a quick turnaround and put my show out on Thursdays. Yeah, so I I commit to it. And it’s because of the time sensitive stuff we talked about. I want it to be fairly fresh. But it’s Yeah, I set a certain time period in those two days. And we haven’t even talked, I mean, you know, and includes editing a really highly edited transcript as well. So it’s so yeah, there’s some time to build into it.



Yeah, there’s, there’s no question and it’s, and I think you just got to build it into your workflow by key building client work in my case or agency work in my case. I actually the way I deal with podcasting is I bought Tom Sawyer when we bought this you and I bought the time I bought time on the weekend to do my editing. I bought time for you know, the promoted you got to treat it like a client. Except your client too. Yeah. So Exactly. Yep. Yep. So we’ve all gone through recording tools your squad cast, we’re recording this on zoom, Zen casters doing some really nice stuff these days. If you’ve been following that they’ve been introducing video and some other stuff there. Yeah, what to look for in a recording to one year, you know, the podcast,



when when I first did it, when I first my very first interviews was through Skype, well, we know probably all so that then, you know, after the after dealing with robotic little voices every once while I, I had to find something else. And I I moved to let’s see, what did I moved to I moved to zoom. Yes. And I liked zoom. But there was something still the quality the because I’m audio only so I don’t you know, let me clarify that first. I don’t need video for my podcast. And, and so I did zoom for a while and I wanted to try something else. So at that point, I tried Zen caster, I was really happy with Zen caster, but there was one thing that drove me nuts with it. And I’m not sure if this is still something that is done or is part of Zen caster, because I know they’ve done a lot of like you said, I’ve been following some of the stuff they’ve done and they’ve had some incredible services is they had this thing called a health check. So every time you got on it would check your system. And the problem was there was one warning that always came up that the only way you could get around it technically was for to ask your guests to bookmark Zen caster. Okay. And I thought, okay, I can’t do that I did. Some of these guests are already stressed enough. I



can’t add another Yeah, nice. Nice guests are technical people. They just want to get on and do the interview when they’re not used to what you and I are.



Yeah, so they so they would sit there and they would see this warning, it came up warning proceed with caution. And I thought so every time I got somebody on there, even though I put it in the show notes to ignore that because usually it was not an issue at all. They would still say I’m seeing this morning, Bob. And I thought okay, now I got to explain it. So I that little thing drove me nuts. And I thought I because my my guests are my guests. I mean, I treat them they’re they’re the important, you know, they’re I make I want to make their life as easy as possible. So I started looking around, that’s when I came across quad cast, and I think it was actually in beta, or just coming out of beta. This was the last fall. And I thought this is very interesting. I don’t know how I came across it. And I’ve used it and I’ve just loved it. I mean, yeah, you know, there’s always a little technical issue no matter what service you use, I mean



as you know, we tried to do this last week and it’s not always service. It’s the connection in town. And it’s a Yeah. And I was listening to we both know Jeff chamber. Shout out to Jeff, you’ve interviewed. And I have the utmost respect for Jim. And I remember Jeff, about six months ago, he was on with a guest, he had to reschedule four times with Oh. And I just like, I know the story.



So I’d like for me is what’s important with the service is, you know, sound, I want good sound. Yes. And I want to be able to get individual tracks, that’s really important, because I like to, I do a lot of editing sometimes. So I like to buy individual tracks for people that don’t understand. Instead of a mix of, you know, two or three voices, I get a track, like we get a track for Rob, we get a track for Bob. And I could go in and edit those separately. So if I need to take out any background noise or anything like that, so and and ease onboarding it squad cast is easy. The people that come on it, yeah, they love it, they go to this green room, they sit there, it’s like, you know, check your audio and everything before you jump in, you make sure connections are cool. And it’s, it makes them comfortable. So I’ve had a lot of people in it. And they and what’s really hilarious, the little things that people love. I’ve had so many people say that when you come out of the greenroom and you get online with the hosts, it does this noise like boom, yeah. And everybody goes, Oh, I love that noise. And I thought wait that grabs your engine, just that I’m glad



I’ve done squad cast, okay, and I find another techie guy and I find etc. So I get I get why you’ve gone there is definitely Dean’s have been saying. There’s Yeah. Yeah,



yeah. And it’s just you know, and again, you’re gonna, you’re gonna find you’re you know, and like I said, it’s not, you know, I’m not sitting there saying don’t use Zen caster. I’ve tried him. So I found what worked best for me and my guess.



And that’s the key what works for you and your guests. Um, so the next thing is we got a podcast, how do we host this thing? Like there’s numerous ways. The one thing I would suggest you don’t do is upload the audio file to your WordPress blog. Insane. There you go. Don’t Don’t go that route. suggestions. What do you like? I know you and I both do a little different here. We can talk about that. What’s your thoughts on



you know, I use I mean, there’s there’s a lot of different platforms out there libsyn and a lot of different ones that let you embed your video on on your WordPress site. So I kind of throw in WordPress only because that, you know, that was important to me. I went with Castillo’s as ca stls. And they are specifically for WordPress, podcast hosting. So like Rob said, You’re not hosting your audio on your server, which you don’t want to do because the bandwidth and you don’t want all those issues. You want it somewhere else. And I did it because I wanted to it was kind of it was two part I wanted something that really integrated well with WordPress, I wanted something that was built for WordPress, because that’s kind of my life. And I wanted to support somebody that was had built something that was integrated with WordPress, and I heard good things about I talked with the owner, Craig and yeah, I just said, you know, this is what I’m going to spend my money on. I know, you know, some people Oh, you know, maybe it’s a little more expensive than they want to spend. But it’s done a great thing. They have a free plugin, you can use really for any, any service. It’s called seriously simple podcasting. And that’s a plugin you can use for your podcasts. It works with their service, but it works with others as well. But it just yeah, it. That was my reason. I went with it. And it’s been you know, it’s been a wonderful service. I mean, I I’ve had no issues at all.



I made a decision, I guess, a year and a half ago and then stayed there. I want the anchor the anchor.fm. And, you know, the reality of it always anchors even more stable because people don’t know, Echo was bought by Spotify, and Spotify has dumped into the podcast form in such a big way. And so that, that kinda helps with visibility. One of the things I liked with anchor and it wasn’t a cost of free versus paid for me. It was anchored to put the stuff out to the other podcast platforms is a no brainer. And by that for those listening, the big thing about podcasting is multiple platforms like Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, pocket catcher several big platforms antonenko does all that distribution for you seamlessly. So, right away, I do an upload, and I don’t even have to think about that side of it. Which, you know, even for me is catchy. I have no hair now when I had less certain



Yeah, I am I actually use blueberry before fasthosts. So that was another one I use for blueberries fiddle around. Oh, yeah. Long time. So there’s Yeah, there’s there’s a lot of great options out there. I mean, it really depends on again, you know, what we keep repeating is, you know, what, what, what fits your needs.



And I have to tell you, Bob, I really, you know, you and I are in many of the same groups together somewhere as vocal in some ways not. And I really avoid these Coke and Pepsi discussions if I can avoid it like the plague, because they never go well, or the Mac versus PC discussion, or any of these, like, just get over to get the tool mastered the tool? And who cares at the end of the day?



Yeah, exactly. That’s it, you know, maybe we spend too much time worrying about what everybody else is doing and saying and using. And that just kind of making those decisions based on our own needs. Yeah,



I think that’s, that’s really key. And I think we, you know, you jump in and say, What, what, Mike, should I get any here? 50 million answered. But the one word answers like I’m sorry, if you’re, if you want to look at it all. And my best advices does this really cool, sacred thing called Google? If you haven’t heard of it? toss it in it, do some reading and then say, I’ve read this. Can somebody expand? In this segment? We’re podcast, I’ve read this. Can you expand? We you and I had a discussion. I guess about a couple months ago, we were talking about mics, and I read some stuff. And I was picking your brain saying, I’ve looked at the five bikes. This is what I understand helping. That’s different, because you’ve done the work. Right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Um, what’s your thought between solo shows and individuals? I know you like to do interviews, I like to do both. What’s your what’s your two cents?



You know, again, it’s gonna be you’re gonna find out what works for you. And I, I learned this myself, I mean, I started that was a solo show. And, you know, when I listened to it, I thought, you know, I, it was just, there was something missing with it. I just didn’t, you know, it didn’t May. And it was probably my personality. Maybe it was, you know, there was something that wasn’t working. So I said, I can’t just be a talking head. And so when I made that decision to shift, I knew I wanted to do an interview one, when I got into interview, I loved it. Yeah. And it just, it just resonated with me it you know, I had several people come back that were guests and say, Wow, I’d love you know, thanks for the interview was great, you know, you made it fun, you know, I was comfortable. And I thought, Okay, well, I must have, you know, some natural, whatever ability here to do that. Probably a lot more effective than just talking myself. So I realized that was my, that that’s what worked. And I enjoyed it more than talking myself. So we’re kind of going back if you, you know, I there’s there’s podcasters I can listen to that talk by themselves. And then there’s some that it’s like, oh, my God, you know, please hit me in the head with a hammer after five or 10 minutes. So there’s, yeah, it’s personalities is it’s kind of going back we keep repeating this, you know, what, you’re going to find that sweet spot and what people respond to, you know, if you’re not getting much traction, and you’re talking to head and you’re not getting anybody listening, you’re not getting any interaction, you’re you’re wanting that and you’re not getting it, then maybe there’s a reason you need to just think out, is it because I’m by myself? Or is it some other reason? Yeah. Not the wrong stuff. So I think both are good. I think both have their place. And often I think people will learn they might have a sense, initially that this is what I’m gonna be best at. And it goes, it goes and it flows well. And they keep with it, but I don’t think there’s any harm in at some point. If you start with one or the other, or, or interviews don’t work for you. You just find they’re boring. You find they’re there. There’s something about it, you just don’t. It doesn’t click with you, then maybe think of a different way to podcast, so no question.



Yeah. And I think like I know for me if I’m doing a solo Capture, run taking a topic. I don’t like those to be more than 10 or 15 minutes interviews of different electives. And then you take somebody like a mutual friend Kim Doyle, shout out to Kim. Kim will do 30 minute socials with these. And I just can’t do a 30 minute solo show no matter how much our regular time no matter how much I do, I just can’t



do yeah, yeah, yeah. And then when I’ve done solo shows, they’ve always been shorter, too.



Yeah. And then, and then they sing about doing the interview for me, is it just let it forward never flows the way you plan. You know, it’s, you know?



Yeah, yeah. And then I love hearing, you know, I just, I learned so much from other people. And so I yeah, I just mean it. And it’s learning, you know, what, whatever their specialty is, but it’s also learning about their personality and hearing parts about their personal life, or whatever comes out, is just, it’s just something that and I hope that the listeners, you know, they find value in that too.



And then you’re making that network connection to when you do the interview, too. Yeah. You know, we’ve all made friends from doing podcasts appearing on podcast, get, you know, doing any guest thing. It’s, it’s amazing, the community is really good.



And one of the things interesting just to throw in and something that I’ve learned from doing interviews is some people I interview I know fairly well to begin with, but some people are new, and some people I don’t know, at all. So I interviewed him. And how many times when I do the interview, I feel their persona of the interview is so much different than the perception I have of them online. Yeah. And we know that, that, you know, people have sometimes an online persona and a real life persona. And there’s some people you know, I’ve saw some people and I won’t call the person out, but they seemed a bit always so serious. And so I don’t know, they were just something unlined, just the way they came across. And I got them talking and their personality was like, totally different than I ever expected. And I thought, wow, you know, this. I mean, we were laughing, it was just something that was, you know,



and then it goes the other way, too. So yeah, a couple weeks ago, or last month, I interviewed Kim, and Kim and I’ve been friends for probably 14 years like we’ve in the same space, you know, that in the same groups. We have almost daily message chats. And you know, what, Kim and I had never spoke by voice. Have we walked in and did a podcast? And it was like to have friends sitting down having coffee? Yeah, just, I mean, Kim’s approach, we all know that your family and Kim and I know each other so well, it didn’t matter. You know what I mean? Like it just it, it just spoke, and we both came in. When we were done, we just kind of said wow. And and it’s because we’ve never spoken before. So we didn’t know how the vocalization part of it was gonna.



Yeah, and some people are very nervous about being on a podcast. I mean, I’ve had people that are very verbal every way else, and I can even see them verbally. I’m more sure of themselves on video, and I get them on a podcast and you know, they are nervous, and it’s something totally out of their space. And you just got to make them as comfortable as possible.



It’s so true. Some Bob tensor today, what are you working on besides do the loop, which, you know, if you’re into WooCommerce, go find Bob’s podcast. You know, it’s funny, Bob, and I always talk about one of the things that he’ll say to me is Oh, you’d like to know what I’m working on. You’ll say that to me find out what’s your dude? Like, I’m really curious, because we’ve been around what else you’re working on such good stuff.



You know, I actually was interesting is I had a couple I had a thought recently. I think I shared with you and I’m gonna mention it, but I it kind of disappeared after some discussions with some different people and some further research. Anyway, I you know, me, I come up with things that I tell you, I send you a message Two weeks later. Well, that’s history. Thanks for listening. Rob. We’ve we’ve done that.



But that’s the process in our business. I mean, the artists changes on a daily basis, and they’re all being in a state ittsan nothing surprises.



Yeah. And one of the things I mentioned to you before we got on the air is that and it does have to do with do the move. I’m thinking of pulling in a mix maybe a couple times a month pulling in a panel. And I’m when I talk about panel, I’m talking about maybe two to three guests each show where we talk a little bit more q&a, because for people that don’t know, do the boo, boo is very conversational, I have a close. And I bring in somebody in the Wu community that has done a lot of WooCommerce. And we talk about how they got into it. And so it’s very, there’s no, there’s no q&a, it’s like we just go, it organically grows the conversation as we go. And this one would be a little bit more educational, where I bring in me, you know, maybe three people in security big commerce sites, and they don’t have to be WooCommerce. absorbed, they just, you know, they understand what WooCommerce is, maybe they’ve dealt with it to some extent, but something that’s a little bit more additional that somebody can sit down, listen to and say, okay, I’ve learned this about security, I’ve learned just about maybe not hosting, but I’m just throwing that out as example. It’s not something that just, you know, get a couple three perspectives in, hit him up with questions, that’s, you know, what it’s gonna be and kind of go from there, because I like to pull out that part of it. That would be you know, when we place it, any part of it, as it exists now, but that’s something I’m thinking, you know, maybe in the fall of starting up by man, and maybe soon, I don’t know, I’m playing around with that. And, you know, I, I’m one of those people that when I, I always try to look at, you know, how can I do for anybody that doesn’t know me, I mean, I blog a ton, you know, I’m still a blogger, I blog, I write content, probably till I can no longer write content, or something is I don’t know what it is. Is your wife said that your wife surrender to is she not? Yeah, yep. Yep. So. So she taught me Well, she Yeah, no kidding. Yeah, yeah. It took a while. But, but yeah, it’s so I never know what but that’s kind of that’s that’s on the horizon. And, yeah, it’s just nothing, nothing new and special right now. Because, yeah, kind of just, and it’s interesting going back and what, when, when, and I think I told Rob this, and this deals with the podcast that deals with my blog is when we got hit with this pandemic, I mean, I went through, I’m about a four, three or four day evaluation of what do I do at this point? I mean, it wasn’t like, what do I do with my life? It was, Do I continue putting content out because everybody is so stressed. And everybody’s so freaked out? And I talk to myself about it. And I thought, you know, No, in fact, I might even bump it up a little bit. Because at this time, if I help, you know, I don’t care. You know, a lot of people yeah, maybe, at this point, their head isn’t in this space, where they want to listen to a podcast or read blog posts, they need to deal with what they need to deal with. And, you know, hopefully, they can wrap back around when that becomes part of their life again, but for the people that are looking for that I thought, you know, if I write a blog post, and it gets five people, or it gets 5000 people looking at it, you know, I’m happy if it’s only five people, because at that point, I just felt this is what I do. I’m not going to just slack on it, I’m not going to say I’m going to take a break, because nobody’s going to want to read it. It’s just going to kind of move ahead. And that’s what I’ve been doing. And so I’ve been staying pretty consistently busy with that.



I would agree with you. I mean, I’ve seen it both in podcasting and my newsletter. So they give me a bad idea. I have a newsletter that’s sitting, excuse me right now around 7400 people. And believe it or not 2000 have added since the pandemic started. So people are clamoring for content to read. And even podcasting, I’ve seen an increase by 30%. And part of it is, you know, that’s shocking, because I think a lot of people listening on your commute are doing stuff, but they think people are doing what I do. And they go for a walk and they put a podcast, or they go for a bike ride in the pocket. So there’s a multitude of ways. And I think also what’s changing podcasting years. I can’t say the device word but the female device from Amazon that talks to me. You can actually save your play this podcast now. Yeah. And that’s changed. You don’t even need a podcast catch. You can tell your google home or your Amazon device to just plan. Yeah, that’s changed the landscape. And I know when I listen to podcasts, I’m a pocket cast fan. All in and all out and one of the reasons I am is pocket cast has this neat little feature for $10 us A year, you can sync it to all your devices and your ad to your desktop via the web. So that for me is worth 10 bucks like you can. And you know, I was kind of experimenting with podcast captures the other day because somebody was asking me, and all I can tell you is, Google just needs to stick to what they do well, get out of that arena to Google tasks is awful. And I and I’m a Google fan. But now, but they don’t do that. Well, they don’t do social media. Well, except for you, too. So, you know, they need to stick out. And and I think, you know, even when you’re listening, what you need to do is find your tool of choice. On an Apple device. Most people go to Apple podcasts or whatever it’s called Apple podcasts? I would think, yeah, I think that’s what it’s called these days. You never know. You never know. But I think that’s what people are doing. But it’s much easier to find a catcher because then you don’t have to go download your latest results. I mean, I got up yesterday and use years of example, yours is on my phone after you publish. I don’t have to worry about it. It’s there. Yeah, exactly. Yep. I agree. I think that’s where we’re headed. So if somebody wants to get a hold of you, how do they listen to do? How do they talk to you? Besides Twitter? Because Twitter is probably the easiest place, isn’t it?



Yeah, yeah. You can find me at Bob WP there and do the booze on just about every podcasting app. So you can search for it there. And then you can go to Bob WP comm and everything grows from that.



That headquarters. Yeah. And, and maybe coming to Gutenberg near you for what you said, right? Yeah. Yeah, I



was. I was I was talking to somebody. And I said, You know, I think maybe it’s, you know, in fact, I was I just had a podcast with Matt Mullenweg, who’s the co founder of WordPress, WordPress. And he, I told him because we were talking, of course, about Gutenberg and blocks, which, of course, is one of his favorite subjects. I told him that I have a page build on my site, but I probably will eventually go to an entirely block site, because I know where the directions going. I’m finding, you know, I’m, I’ve got a mix of it that on my site. So yeah, so there’s Yeah, so that’s so so I told him that he said, Oh, that sounds like a fun project for a weekend. And I’m like,



yeah. Well, it’s funny, because I don’t know if you know, and it’s a bit of a segue. I’m working on a new personal brand site, and I’m building it with blocks. And I’ll put a page builder on the development site. I’m not going to I this is not a weekend, folks. I’ve been just been a lot of good discussion going on out there about the walks. And so people are putting out their favorite box. So I’ve just kind of been taking screen captures of the world lately saying, I need to try this at the gym. Yep, yep. Yep, I think it’s, it’s the direction A lot of us will be going. So thank you very much, Bob, for coming on. I really appreciate you and you have an amazing weekend, an amazing weekend. Thank you. Appreciate being on. Thank you. But



I want to thank Bob Dunn for joining me on this week’s podcast. The best way to get ahold of Bob is look for Bob WP on all social media platforms. Bob has been a friend or mentor, somebody I’ve had many great conversations with over the years and I cherish our friendship greatly. Thanks, Bob. I know the world is tough right now. Please take the time to take care of your loved ones, your friends, your family, and treat everybody with respect. Please remember that it’s a tough time out there. And we need to remember that and be thankful for who we are and where we’ve been and more recall. As always, you can find me on Twitter at Rob Cairns at our website, stunning digital marketing.com. And if you go there, down in the footer was all the other social media platforms you can find me on. That includes YouTube, LinkedIn, and of course Facebook. Please keep your feet on the ground. Keep reaching for the stars and make your business succeed. Stay safe and be well. Bye for now.

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