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Show Summary

Rob Cairns talks to Ross Brand and Kervin Kolbe about their new book Video Podcasting Made Easy.

Show Highlights:

• Why this book?
• Podcasting tips.
• The approach to the book.
• Podcasting is not hard to start.

The Book

Show Notes

Rob:

Hey everybody, Rob Cairns here and today I’m here with my good dear friend Mr. Ross Brand. How are you today?

Ross:

I’m great, rob. Thanks for having me on. How you doing?

Rob:

I’m doing absolutely amazing. It’s great to have you back. We tried to do this last week and of course the wonderful podcast host with 450 episodes. Not you, me had major Internet problems and you know it’s only happened like a couple of times and last week it just happened to be. We’re talking about podcasting and what happens. My Internet feed goes South.

Ross:

Well, let’s see your provider. That’s not on you.

Rob:

Yeah, yeah, I’ve seen what things happen. You, you and I have both been there, right? And it’s exactly. Right. It’s just funny when it happens to guys who should know what they’re doing. So you released a a book with Kevin Colby called video podcasting made easy. I’ve told both the as far as I’m concerned, Yep, there it is there.

Ross:

Ohh and the other one takes a tumble as he does that.

Rob

That’s OK. No worries. Go ahead and.

Ross:

Bad. That was smooth, that was. Smooth. Alright, so this will take up the. Have the display all to itself.

Rob:

Yeah, but but I’ve described this book and I said today in a a conference with somebody, I’m helping start a podcast is this is a book, Rob. What she had when I started four years ago. So thank you for writing it.

Ross:

First of all, and as I told you, I I think that’s the nicest comment you could you could give. I mean this is for people who. Are not currently doing a video podcast and want to launch one or who are doing an audio podcast may have a lot of. Experience, but have no idea how to integrate or just hesitant. They wonder what do I have to do with video? You know, I’m gonna have to look good. I’m gonna have to build a fancy studio. I’ve gotta get all this expensive gear. And really, it’s not that complicated. And that’s one of the messages in the book. Anybody. Can can add video using tools they already own and already have and know how to use. And I do think that people who are doing some video already, even experienced video creators and video podcasters and live streamers. We’ll probably get a few tips out of the book from what Kevin and I talked about from our experiences. I know I learned from Kevin. He said he learned some stuff from me, so. If we’re learning from each other, then hopefully people reading it will learn from one of us or both of us along the way.

Rob:

And I and I always learn from both of you. I mean, I’ve been blessed. I’ve had when I started podcasting with save my bacon was people like you in the community. The other people I knew in the community and the podcasting community is pretty tight and we know that and yeah, and you know, you and I both started actually more live streaming than anything I’ve I’ve shared with his stories about how I used to live stream on the top of the 10 foot ramp with the webcam. So. We laugh about it, but we all had to start somewhere, right? Russ, I mean.

Ross:

Right. And I I think for me coming to the Internet after you know, I did radio for a while and then I I was in another field and I come to the Internet. And the live streaming app at the time that was big or getting big for talk show hosting and stuff was blab and blab made it easy.

Rob

Yeah.

Ross:

You, you, you know, you didn’t have to learn all the things about podcasting for our, you know, an RSS feed and you know how you distribute it and where you host your file. How you create a file you just press a couple of buttons and next thing you know you were live and your guest would jump into a seat and you had a show or a conversation and an after show. So going on so it it really sort of live streaming video kind of simplified things for people who were were new and now it’s kind of coming full circle is that you know after podcasting really got on the map and people talking about it a lot, once YouTube and Spotify. Open the doors to putting video and video podcasts on and you know, as Kevin said, they really YouTube really planted its flag. You know, with, with video podcasts and claimed its territory on that. It’s a game changer. And there’s so many people who. Or use the term colloquially or whatever you want to say casually use the term podcast, but what they’re thinking isn’t audio distributed via RSS, they’re thinking of video show, maybe with a camera too, and you know, upload it to YouTube. They may also later or. At the same time. Attribute it as audio only, but in many cases YouTube is where they’re building their biggest audience and they think video first in terms of where the content is going to be distributed.

Rob:

Yeah, no question about that one. I, I would agree wholeheartedly. I mean, I know when I started I did audio only you and I have both done both types of interviews, audio only and video and I transitioned and I know on my. Even on my website pages, I actually share both the video up top and the audio on right underneath, so you can choose which one if you don’t want to go to a podcast player. So I actually share both.

Ross:

Same with me and I I think what what happened is people were just seeing results from. It’s not that like. Taking anything away like I’m a radio guy, I’m audio first. I I believe that most video talk shows are essentially radio live radio or recorded radio talk shows where a webcam is kind of looking in on you and that’s, you know, that’s the basis of it. The audio is far more important than the video. Because our content, our conversation, is all matters, how well the audio transmits it? Well, if our video goes out, the show can still continue and people can get all the value from it. If the audio goes out, there’s nothing. There’s nothing to look at, but our beautiful faces and that, you know, can get old after half an hour, an hour, two hours. So I think, you know, the real reason that people are going to video more than anything is they want to compete on YouTube and they want to compete on Spotify. And they, you know. The opportunity for search and discovery on YouTube. Is is amazing and every video you put out there has a chance to take off. Has a chance to get an audience based on the volume of people using YouTube and the way the YouTube algorithm is set up to try and find people who would be interested in watching your content.

Rob:

No, no question I’ll give you. I’ll give you an example that trips it’s right here in the more dive in the book and. Oh no, there’s a legendary sportscaster by name of Bob Mccowan. You probably don’t. I don’t know if you know Bob or don’t know Bob. He’s been in the Toronto radio scene for over 40 years. He was part of the fan 590 when they went to Sports Radio launched and they were bought by sports net and sports net. Which is owned by Rogers, turned around and said we need our radio shows, our fight ship radio shows on TV. So what? Did they do? They threw basically 2 cameras into the studio and said here you go, you’re recording it anyway, so why don’t we throw it on Rogers anyway? And basically that’s what we’re doing when we’re moving the podcast to video, aren’t we?

Ross:

Yeah. I mean, the early Kevin and I talked about this in, in the book and we’ve talked about it offline. Do is. The only radio shows the 1st when they first started simulcasting radio shows on TV on cable. What have you. They would basically put put cameras up in the corner of the room and it would just be a wide shot looking in and the host completely ignored the cameras. And then they got better. They got closer in, but they’re still the same thing. You’re sort of looking in on the radio. So now it’s changed to where the people hosting the simulcast are, largely much, much more aware of. Yeah, the the camera and or or it’s they’re set up to be addressing the camera. The camera set up to have, you know, a nice headshot of them. And they’re still operating as a radio show where they’re not. 100%, you know addressing the camera, but it’s much more. Much more. Priority on how the video comes across than it used to be. It used to be just enough that you know, you’re switching through the channels and you could choose, you know, to watch your favorite radio show or whatever. Now it’s, you know, let’s make this compete with what’s on the news channels and on other, you know, the sports channels, let’s make our. Are, you know are are are simulcast of radio shows and our video podcasts look like they belong on TV.

Rob:

No, I agree with you. Now normally when I talk to an author and I love inner authors and you and I have talked about your other books and I was involved in your last personal project, which are, you’re welcome always a pleasure. And I normally start at the front of the book. I’m not going to.

Ross:

Yeah. Thank you.

Rob:

I think having read the book, I’ve read it twice now by the. I think the secret sauce in this book is the whole resource section at the back, and that’s the reason to go if you don’t want to read any other part of the book. And I’m not saying you shouldn’t, you should. But the back of the book in this case is absolutely amazing, Ross.

Rob:

Well, thank you. You’re probably talking about the gear recommendations and the software. And then and then the glossary, because I realize people starting out don’t know many of these terms because the the book came out of our conversations. We literally used the video podcast format.

Ross:

To create. The book. And so we’re gonna we’ll roll out technology terms and, you know, insider terms and stuff like that. And there are terms that people will get to know and experience as they get into this. But when we mentioned something, there should be a way for you to look it up without having to go too far. So you can flip to the glossary in the back, and generally there’s a one sentence definition. That kind of sums up what you need to know about. You know. What’s a thumbnail? If you’ve never done YouTube before, when people keep talking about a thumbnail, what do what do you mean by a thumbnail? It’s the, you know, it’s the cover image that goes with the video that you know often is generates people to wanna watch that video motivates them because they like what they see. It catches their attention. That kind of thing. So. We’re giving you kind of the lingo that you need to get involved with video audio as well, and, you know also YouTube.

Rob:

Yeah, I agree. And the other thing we were talking about the conversations that happened, one of the things I loved with this book and it’s exactly what you and I are doing right now. That’s what you and Kevin. Even did during your conversations. That’s what you do on your live stream shows all the time. We have conversations. So what did you do? You made the book conversational and you inspired so much here that starting with this episode, I’m changing my show notes ifor my podcast include. Weaker names, which I’ve never done before, so you guys have inspired? Ohh nice. I’ve done 4 and 50 odd episode. And that you guys are still inspiring and still teaching? So there you go. So.

Ross:

Oh, that’s great. That’s great. Now, do you normally put a transcript on or you normally just you do like a summary of of what went on in the.

Rob:

I do. I do both. I do usually 3 or 4 highlights and then I do a if there’s a resource like a a PDF or something, I’ll throw that in or a JPEG and then I’ll do a transcript. That’s basically loosely and I mean loosely a I edit it. So I basically take the audio. Dump it into a into a thing and say here you go and don’t complain at me into spelling mistakes. Explain me I because.

Ross:

He’s got a transcript by blank blank dot AI or whatever. And yeah, yeah, it is what it is. But they’re getting better. They’re getting better. And they’re getting. They’re getting more accurate.

Rob:

That’s what.

Ross:

And it’s really amazing when you plug something in and they’ve already identified the speakers before you even start reading.

Rob:

It the only thing I typically it’s funny that I make sure I I get right is names and. And believe it or not, the other thing is brand names, so websites, stuff like that as they’re awful. And my last name, I can never always likes to spell with the K for some reason.

Ross:

Mm-hmm.

Rob:

My own name of my own right, right. So that that’s good. Anything. You know, it’s funny. Just reading it and I’ve, as I said, I’ve read it twice now. It is such a light read. It’s not a heavy read at all I.

Ross:

No, you could read it in two hours maximum, right? Maybe even an hour and a half or an hour.

Rob:

It was two hours from me cause of. Yeah, just. And I’m an avid reader and you know that. So and I. I thanks for both of you appre release. Copy on kindle. I read it on a Kindle version, so that was really enjoyable. It was easy. It was well laid out. Which section in the book did you have the hardest time writing? Would you say?

Ross:

I would say, well, one of them that we had the hardest time with was the hosting chapter. Originally we had that. It was super long. It was divided up into two chapters. It was at times repetitive, as you know from me over the years. That’s the area that I’m most passionate about. So it’s actually a little tougher for me to just. Stay on step by step. Target by target I. I mean we had an outline and although we didn’t necessarily refer to it often, we had a real. I had a real sense of what we were going to. Talk about. And wanting to accomplish in each chapter and then we had a free flowing conversation, but one that was aware of where we were going.

Rob:

Yeah.

Ross:

When you when we get into hosting and and Kevin says something that just triggers me to want to talk about something or I say something and he you know we both we both were you know radio personalities in the day. Have hosted our our our fair share of shows and are very passionate about that. Aspect of it. So yeah, that made a a tougher chapter because once the conversation is over, then it’s about what do you leave in and what do you leave out because we don’t want this to be a 304 hundred page book and a burden to get through. We want it. We want to have the conversation, but not all of it. We want, you know, you to get, be able to feel like you’re getting what moves you forward as a, as a creator, not, you know, every thought that ever entered into either one of our heads. And then came out on. On a video or audio recording.

Rob:

Yeah. And I can see that and the hosting and the podcast space, whether it’s video or audio or both always causes discussion. Do I go to a paid host, do I go to a free host? How do I play that game? And there’s I hate say it. There’s no right or wrong way to do it.

Ross:

Ohh, you’re talking about like the host there you store your file, right? Right. I was talking about like hosting the actual show. But yeah, I mean we have a chapter.

Rob:

That tooth, that that.

Ross:

I think which chapter is it in? I’m I’m. I’m actually looking at the book right now. There’s distribution, probably the distribution chapters where we get into to hosting and you know.

Rob:

And hosting hosting. Ohh yeah.

Rosd:

I. Think that’s something that’s interesting because you can put as many videos as you want. On YouTube for free, you can upload directly to Spotify your video for free. So. Unless you’re really motivated that there’s gonna be an audience for video on Apple Podcasts that you need to host the video somewhere else. Basically, when we’re talking about podcast hosting, we’re talking about the audio only versions that are going to the various podcast apps. And you know all the major as far as I know, all the major hosts that the names, that every podcast, there’s familiar with, that you see at conferences that you hear people mention at the end of their podcast or whatever, they’re all performing a similar service. It’s just it’s it’s really personal preference. Do I like the way that this one? Is out. Yeah, their page is the workflow easier on that one who’s got the, you know the. Better. Plan for the amount of content I’m doing, but it it it’s hard to sit there and go well. This host is better at delivering the audio file and the content than that. Then that host is as far as I know most people you know don’t end up changing hosts because they go ah the file wasn’t delivered on the day of my podcast. I end up changing because of price because of a feature. Because of uh wanting to mix things up. Or what have you. I mean, they changed for any number of reasons, but it’s rarely because you know, you hear somebody say XYZ didn’t deliver my file. You know when somebody went to play and it wasn’t there or.

Rob:

And and then you get guys like me who’ve been doing this well and you know this, I’m not using a paid host and I haven’t you, I have been that rude. Right. I just find I’m kind of in bed with this Spotify company. So you, you know where I’m hosted. So you that will tell you I’m I’m with podcast.

Ross:

Yeah.

Rob:

By Spotify, which formerly known as Anchor I have been.

Ross:

Right Spotify for podcasters.

Rob:

Yep, and I I have really good success with it now in this space, which just got interesting and we were talking about this last week is Apple.

Ross:

Yeah.

Rob:

Ah. There’s a game changer. Mm-hmm. They now allow you to access Apple podcasts through a web interface and on an Android smartphone. How about that one?

Ross:

It’s it’s about time. Yeah, I know. I. I mean, it seems very silly. And I’m maybe doing some research and wanted to, you know, see what somebody’s gotten their podcast and take a listen before I interview them. And it starts to open Apple Podcasts and the app and whatever on my desktop. And I’m sort of like, I don’t. I don’t need this right now. I just want to click play sample a little bit. Not that it’s a huge deal, but it it just makes it easier. It makes it more user friendly. Listen the the download days, really we still use the term in the podcast thing industry like how many downloads did, but really you’re looking at plays now. Is anybody really like, you know, I’m subscribing to a podcast and I’m gonna watch all these episodes download or, you know, I need to download it. No. You’re you’re you’re on Wi-Fi or you’re on Internet or whatever. Yeah, I download when I’m gonna get on an airplane, I download music so I can listen to it off offline. But and and even there a lot of times I’m getting, you know, I’m. I’m getting. Internet package or whatever when I get on the air on the flight and I’m listening. I’m I’m you know, I’m. I’m listening to podcasts or whatever so most people are hitting play now really. And so why can’t you just open the browser and hit play?

Rob:

Tell you in Toronto, it just became even a non issue because. One of our subway lines is now fully 5G all the way down and across, and the other one. Is about the other Main 1 is about 60% of the way there, so even on the subway underground you don’t have this problem anymore, so you no technology, no, it’s so true. Let’s go back to the what we’re talking about at a chapter and where you host your podcast, where you host the show.

I have been the gambit over the years. I have used everything from squad cast to stream yard. As you know, I know you’re a stream yard fan. I went through a perk about.

Ross:

So you’re really talking about recording and producing?

Rob:

About recording this thing, yeah.

Ross:

Where you’re hosting as you, not because it gets so mixed up with the term podcast host, media host, whatever. But yeah, so we got chapters on recording your podcast and that’s where we get into, you know, what software you’re going to use. So yeah.

Rob:

And this one we’re recording on zoom because I’m playing around again and what else is new and US techies can never stop playing. So that’s the way it goes. But I think the bottom line is the old Nike phrase just do it. Just get it done to start. What do you think?

Ross:

Yeah. I mean, I think again, some of the platforms, unlike the podcast hosts where you store your your file and they usually all deliver it on time and as expected, they’re relative strengths and weaknesses of the different. Apps for you know and and and software for recording your podcast. Yes. But in the end, they’re all going to get your recording that’s listenable that you can, you know, watchable and and so forth. So it comes down to what which one you’re comfortable using and are there features you need. So we both probably use stream yard, Kevin and myself. More than any other because it’s so easy to get a guest on. For me, it’s just so predictable. I know, I know it like the back of my hand. I don’t have. I don’t. You know, I I just.

Rob:

Yes.

Ross:

Everything I need is in there and I I don’t have to make the the production more complicated, Kevin more so than me, but both of us also have ye Cam and we’ll use that for certain types of. I mean in my case I’ll use it when I want to make my my show for whatever reason. Or or do something with a client where I want it to look like no other. No other production out there, right? I don’t want it to. Somebody go. Hey. Hey. They’re using stream yard. Well, with E KN Cam. I can make it look like you don’t know what what we’re using so, but in general, I I think stream yards stability and it’s professional and you know looking. And it’s got enough bells and whistles that you know, the ability to get your guest on quickly and the ability just simply go ahead and record and all the the, the little things that it does with such ease. It it’s a, it’s great for whether you’re an entry level person or you’re somebody who’s been doing this for years.

Rob:

Yeah, I I would agree with you. I also think people like to overcomplicate stuff and you buy both and I’m sure Kevin has too. We’ve all played in the OBS world and I have to tell you. I don’t even have OBS on my laptop right now, I just I’m I it just shakes my head. I can do it, but I don’t want to. Like, it’s just it’s work. And how do you how do you teach a novice who’s jumping in the video podcasting? How do you so BS they have enough problems.

Ross:

I mean, you just don’t need it. Anymore. I mean, that’s the reality of it is.

Rob:

Yes.

Ross:

When I started, I started in 2015, 2016. I think in the summer I forced myself to learn O BS and and really within a matter of hours I had the thing and I’m not somebody with any video production background. So I was really psyched for myself that I had it up there I had. Multiple shots and people remote and whatever. But two more weeks and I still. Hadn’t. Been able to sync the audio and get the audio to record where you heard both people properly. Whenever I said it’s enough, I’m not. You know, I I just, I don’t. I don’t like this enough and at that time I got wirecast which is more visual and a little bit further along in terms of doing some things that you don’t have to do on OBS, but ultimately and I had a great run with wirecast, I used to use it every day. I used to record and wirecast.

Ross:

Even when I wasn’t using it to stream. I just don’t need it now and it it’s it. It just isn’t necessary it. It’s a great. It’s been a great piece of software over the years for me, but right now, I. I I think people are there for the conversation and the personality of the host and how it makes them feel and what they can take away. From it and you know you can over produce these things and and it it, it can take away from the show if you’re too busy, you know, stressing over every, you know, change you’re gonna make and and switching and and doing all these things and. Yeah. One of the things that’s been a curse on TV people over the years, like TV producers. And so give them a a new feature and they feel compelled that they have to use it, right? Yeah, like if it’s there. I’m. I mean, they’ve got this new thing, the network paid for it or whatever. I gotta figure out how to. I’m going to integrate this and then every replay or every shot has got to have this feature in it or, you know, every quarter of the football game, we’ve got to go to this overhead shot. Where it makes you feel like you’re dizzy watching the game, but you know they paid for that camera to be put in. So I gotta. Right. Don’t do that if you’re if you’re live streaming or podcasting the features are there to serve you. If you need them, and they benefit your broadcast, use them. But that’s what they’re there for. They’re there if you need them. If you don’t need them, don’t think that if they’re 5050 features, you got to use 47 of them. You might only need to use three of them, and that’s OK.

Rob

Yeah, I agree with you. I mean, and sports broadcasting is the and we’re both sports fans is the worst.

Toys and you give a color commentator new toys who doesn’t have.

Ross:

The telestrator remember that.

Rob:

You know where I was going?

Ross:

I love to circle that I’m going to circle that middle linebacker because it wasn’t enough to say the guy. In the middle.

Rob:

School kidding. It’s so true. So yeah, so that talks about that. The one thing I. Really like in this book. And you know, there’s a bit of mini review but. That’s OK is you break that down nicely and even with the equipment, you’re saying you don’t have to spend a lot to start, you can get a Samsung Q2 mic for under 100 bucks now, right give or take.

Ross:

Yeah, 57 to 1759 to 79 ish.

Rob:

At Mic and that’s something Mic, I’m using, but it’s one that started with, it’s over there. It comes with both an XLR and a USB interface they give you for both.

Ross:

Right.

Rob:

I would encourage anybody personally, when they’re starting to go the XLR route and get a mixer box because it’s easier to control the levels going in from from a mixer. A digital converter in the middle. That’s just my opinion.

Ross:

It it is now some, not the Samson Q2U as far as I know, but some come with like a with a, you know, a desktop app or whatever that will help you setting the level. Some even have auto gain and things like that so.

Rob:

Yeah. And we have a new guest, Mr. Kevin. Kolby, how are you, my friend?

Kevin:

OK, I’m glad we didn’t call our our book. You know, being prompt for interviews made easy. I so apologize to you loss your listeners and viewers. I have a good excuse. I was editing a video about.

Kevin:

My recent YouTube stuff and I got I got way into it and I pop in Messenger and Ross is like, hey, are you doing the? Interview and I’m like.

Speaker 4

And then it was like, OK, do I pop in or not or what? So I apologize and feel free to send me to the green room if you want.

Rob:

No, you’re not going anywhere.

Ross:

Drop them. Just drop them now. At least keep the door open and when you when you show up, you. We. Show up. So I’m so sorry.

Rob:

We were, we were. Just talking about and by the way, I’m not editing this part out just for because it makes you look.

Kevin:

Thanks.

Rob:

You’re welcome. Love you, too. We’re we were just talking about. Hardware and mics. And I was saying to Ross that when I started, I started with Samsung Q2, which a lot of podcasters do. I don’t. Now I I use a rogue. I’m spoiled. And you know, I’m allowed to spoil myself. Being a techie guy, I like toys and everybody says I justify. Like toys, depending on what business need I can find, that means I can write them off and be that. City, you know. But and I was saying the Ross, I think. And I know in the book we all know we we talked about you can use USB and go right. I would say if you want to do a step. Right away get. Yourself a a digital audio converter mixer in the middle right away. Because I think being able to control your levels is more important from a box than from. The PC or the Mac, what do you think, Kevin? Put you on the. Spot so.

Kevin:

I think maybe how about that? I’ll be a politician. Well, maybe here’s why. In my experience, there’s a couple of things that keep people from starting. It’s the fear of the gear. And a lot of times they’re just, you know, they’re they’re afraid they’re gonna mess up, and nobody’s gonna like them. And and if it’s overwhelming and I’m a big I I used to not be this way. Maybe as I’ve gotten older, I’ve gotten softer. I used to rag on anything I shouldn’t say. I used to be. Like, really. You don’t want to use a webcam. And now I’m like, if that’s if that gets you going. I mean. Use the webcam. So I think I agree with you that as you grow, there are some things, especially audio. It’s the most important part. You know, you ought to do that, but you know you and I understand audio interfaces and sometimes I even hate throwing that term out because I think people are like.

What? What did you say about my face? And you’re like, no, no, I said interface. So I don’t, you know, I I think if I would start very, very simple like I use an old guy. I’ve I’ve gone back to.

Rob:

Yes.

Kevin:

My an Elgato wave XLR, it’s simple. It’s got a big knob on it. Reminds me of my first radio station, you know, and and I recommend that to a lot of folks when they’re ready to like, bump up to an XLR or something like that because it’s really simple. So I to me, it all depends on where you are in your journey. And things like that, but then overtime. Ohh yeah, yeah. I mean really look at dialing that up a little. And I think it’ll pay. Off big time.

Rob:

No, I agree.

Ross:

o

Yeah, I mean the problem is you have to if you say you’re on a Mac, you have to go into the sound settings on the Mac. And those can have a mind of their own. So you said it one way and it doesn’t always. It’s not an exact science. Whereas if you dial your mixer or your audio interface to to something specific, it’s going to sit there. Now sometimes the platforms. Add a little. Little uh sweetening or what have you to your sound or little impression, but I I I kind of agree with Kevin. I mean, I think the Samsung Q to you for most people, if they plug that into their computer. They’re. They’re so far ahead of where they were, the room gets quiet. They sound present, you know, occasionally. Maybe they have to play with their settings. But overall it’s a it’s a pretty good mic. And then also like I said, if you go up to like Azure MV 7 or whatever. Then you’re getting a USB mic, which is also a USB XLR, but you’re getting a USB mic that comes with software and processing and so forth that you can actually do. In real time. And so you have a lot more control over it and it’s it’s a good sounding mic, but obviously the for the most part the top of the line is going to be XLR is a professional connection and the level depending on what audio interface or mixer you get, the level of control you have is superior.

Kevin:

Well, I will throw this in I a lot of these roads, sure. Elgato, they have, you know, the digital interfaces on your computer. I think they’re. I mean, they have great tools in it. I personally am old school. I like to be. Able. To touch it.

Rob:

So do I.

Kevin:

So you know the problem is then it’s one more thing to have to go and have open and you know, in a lot of computers, the more you have opened you know it’s like the the it’s like the Star Trek, you know, we gotta have more power to the bridge. So I just like that, you know, there’s the control in front of me or the knob. Over here or whatever. So I I I do think that is an advantage to something that.

Ross:

Can handle. Yeah, it’s it’s one less reason you have to click out of your your show and go into another thing and then click behind that. And also if you can solve the problem before the analog to digital conversion, that’s probably better too, because then your audio isn’t going to distort and things like that, you’ll you’ll.

Kevin:

Yeah, yeah.

Ross:

You’ll get a better end result, but that’s again, it’s getting very technical. I mean, fortunately, our tools that we now have are are so good in comparison to what existed, you know, not that long ago that you can really almost get. Studio quality sound either with the the right mic or with some post processing that you can do and and even some of the consumer available, you know editing suites.

Rob:

And even for video like and the book is about video is. It doesn’t take much to get a good camera. I’m running a Logitech Brio 4K ultra wide, which I’ve been running for. I guess a year. I have. And being in Canada, it was just sign of $200 Canadian. So take 40% off to get your American price and there. You go but. Not that expensive now and like five years ago, a basic web camera would have cost you 100 bucks, right? Guys like it’s.

Kevin:

Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah, and and and that’s the nice thing. I mean you can get some really. Nice gear, but cameras and you don’t have to spend a ton of money. I mean, the iPhone, the I, I mean. IPhones are a. Lot better than some of the cameras out there and then you know, I one of my best purchases that I I think one of my coolest is is called the DJI Osmo Pocket 3.

Rob:

Next.

Kevin:

It it literally does everything you need. You can live stream with it. You can, you can, you know, record video with it. It plugs right into your computer. It’s a built in gimbal the face and goes on and on and on. And you know it’s it’s it’s.

Ross:

Small and light.

Kevin:

Yeah, it’s like a stick. And you can literally just throw in your pocket and go with it. So just imagine. That take your laptop and and there’s even a kit that you can buy and get that comes. With a mic. You got everything you need right there and it’s like under 700 bucks.

Rob:

I just need to get my credit card. Don’t let you go shopping, Kevin.

Ross:

Wow.

Kevin:

I can hook you.

Ross:

Up man, I’m wanting one of those too, believe me.

Rob:

Early on, it’s funny. We’re talking about mikes cause I I started live streaming and one of the purchases I bought early on was the Sennheiser. OK, so that’s the one with the stick mic and then it’s got the that it plugs into the receiver and you can take the receiver and plug it right into a soundboard.

Ross:

Hmm.

Rob:

And let me tell you that thing alone. And I think when I bought mine, it was like 1200 bucks Canadian or somewhere it was up there and I have to tell you it bailed me out of more time because.

I you know, podcasting aside, I do in advance and I’d find a sound engineer who I could make friends with and be like, can you just plug this in your soundboard for me, please? And you know, come out of the board the the sound quality you get is off the charts and people say, how did you get good sound call? They said AH, make friends with the sound engine dinner. Yeah. You can appreciate that one. Yeah, so I think. But they think you’re right. I. In the book you talk a lot. A bit about just doing it, Kevin. And just getting started and yeah. And then. And that kind of model was there for you and the whole book was just go out and try this thing and what I would say to anybody is having done this will be episode 452 for me. So you know, you’re shaking your head. But I never envisioned doing. 450 and out at the 452. Two, the last 200 have been videos, so I made the transition about a while. Yeah, cause I saw it coming. I saw YouTube on the wall. I saw a lot of things coming and I think you just gotta get started and and just, you know, I was working with the client today, by the way. I was telling Ross.

Ross:

Oh wow.

Rob:

I told him I wouldn’t work with him unless you bought your book because I’m not re explaining all this stuff. It’s. Ohh thank you for doing my work for me and guys.

Kevin:

I like the sales tactic.

Ross:

I I do. Yeah, I’ve been approached.

Kevin:

Hey, use that.

Ross:

He’s about halfway through it and he said. Yeah, I understand why it’s all there. And I was talking about they before I got on this call and I said to him, you know, these these guys are broken down and.

Kevin:

Wow.

Rob:

But I also think you gotta just start somewhere and just get it done and and realize the 1st 15 videos you do are doing for you and your friends like honestly. What do you think about that?

Kevin:

Yeah, I mean again getting, here’s the thing when let’s just take YouTube, you go to YouTube and you find somebody who’s been at it for a while. And then you look and regardless of how many views they’ve got, but let’s say they’ve got, you know, good number of subscribers and views and videos. And I think what happens people. Look at that. And go well, I can’t do that. But they never look at where they started. Yeah, you know, I mean, you know, one of my friends, he’s also a mentor, Sean Cannell. If you go back and look at his very first. Video it’s like hey guys, this is Sean. And I’m kind of excited here and it’s.

Money. And and, but people forget everybody. It doesn’t matter. Singers, actors, everybody, entrepreneurs, we all start at zero and we and we grow. And if people will just kind of get over that and realize that, you know, I don’t care how big you get, there’s still a whole world out there that probably doesn’t even know you. You’re around. So just. Put yourself out there and take a chance. And I I you know, you may not like it, but you’ll never know unless you try and you may surprise yourself and go Dang. I I really like like this.

Ross:

Everybody starts with zero on YouTube and there are people who’ve been on.

Rob:

Yep.

Ross:

Fairly sizable media. They’ve had fairly sizable media gigs, you know, mid to large market radio shows or they’ve been TV anchors or whatever and they thought they would just come over to YouTube and you know flick flick the switch on on their camera and their microphone and the audience would be there. Well it’s it’s not that way. You have to build it slowly over time, unless you are world famous celebrity. You know LeBron James or, you know, Beyoncé or somebody like that. But you know your local TV anchor may get people watching.

Rob:

Our friend. Just.

Ross:

At least in part because they’ve always watched that Channel before. He was there after he or she was there, you know. But when you go over to YouTube, you gotta bring an audience or build 1 and. And so everybody’s starting with zero. And even if you’ve been at it for a while, your next video has has just as good a chance as anybody else. He’s.

If you make a really good video and people get interested in it, it can take off and it can change your trajectory.

Kevin:

Absolutely.

Rob:

It’s so true and. And I think like there’s different ways of doing it, like from a revenue stream, right? Some people do it because they’re sponsors and the sponsors pay the cost to show one of the reasons I do it is it puts eyes on my business. I’d be lying if I said that in my podcast. There’s two ad spots. They’re both for services. They’re about to change. But. You know, that’s why I do it. And the third reason I do it and you both know The Dirty little secret of podcasting. It’s a master class that the host gets to ask you guys any questions he wants. His own, you know, his own interest, right? So and the people I’ve met from podcasting and you’ll both agree with me is absolutely astronomical. Like where.

Kevin:

Oh yeah. Ohh yeah yeah. I mean I you know, I I can speak more from from the. YouTube side but goodness just. You know, being able you, you know, it’s the World Wide Web, but until people start dropping in where they’re from or reaching out, you know, I mean I early early on, I. Worked with B life for a few months and my contact at the time lived in Ukraine. Sadly because of everything going on, she doesn’t live there anymore. But I mean, I thought that was the coolest thing. It’s like I got a call tomorrow with somebody.

Ross:

In the Ukraine was like.

Rob:

Boom. Yeah, I know. And we’re all we’re. And we’re all probably in the same age category like we’re all pretty close, right and if?

Kevin:

Yeah, I just turned 20.

Rob:

One yeah, I turn 58 on the 8th of September. So there you go.

Ross:

Right. Yeah. I just got my driver’s license yesterday. So I’m just going to cruise around. Down because. Just when you when you haven’t driven before, it’s.

Kevin:

Just it’s just nice.

Ross:

Fun to be in the car and out there. Yeah. Yeah. So it’s. Yeah, lot of lot of first times experiencing things.

Rob:

It’s funny because I always tell people I was on the online before the days of the Internet, which there’s truth to it. So I’ve been in this environment probably for 50 years, so there you go.

Kevin:

Yeah, it’s cool.

Rob:

Yeah, it’s cool. We’re all lucky. In terms of the book, let’s go to Ross. What was your favorite chapter to write, Ross?

Ross:

I’m going to say that the hardest chapter for us, and you know as I mentioned. Earlier I think for for me at least, the hardest chapter was the chapter on hosting your show, because we just had so much. And Kevin and I both have a lot of background in that and I’m very I know I’m very passionate and so Kevin could say XYZ and that reminds me of some story or something, some other point.

That, you know, I want to make. And on and on. So. I I I I think that chapter was not only the hardest because we had a really. Cut it down to. Yeah, the essence. So it was still a step by step thing that you could you could, you know, integrate at any level. But it was also the most fun for me because I’m just passionate about that. And, you know, I, you know, gear is one thing software recording, you know. I I know a little bit about everything that we talked about in the book. What hosting shows is what I’ve done at, you know, a fairly high professional level and it’s what I really am passionate and take pride in. So for me that was, you know, it was fun to talk about that stuff and and to bounce it off. Kevin, who’s such an outstanding host and it’s such a great background in the in the in the. Business and and so. But the whole book kind of felt like that, you know, but that chapter, and especially it’s like that. Yeah, we’re in my wheelhouse now. We’re in something that I like to talk about.

Rob:

Ross, before we jump over to Kevin, I was going to say the other thing is softer and gears all become a commodity now. It’s not specialized like it was 10 years ago or 15 years ago. I mean, I’ve been in before I got into marketing, I was in tech support for like 30 years and I used to get excited when the new package comes out and now it’s like, yeah. So like show me something fun. It takes a lot to get me excited in the industry. Drones is another story, which we’ll talk about some other time, but that.

Ross:

Right, right.

Rob:

Kevin, how do you answer that question? What do you what chapter was most fun for you?

Kevin:

Wow. I, you know, I hadn’t. I haven’t been asked that I maybe the first one only because it’s kind of like that’s when it started, you know, I mean how we. Is it? You know, is probably very different than probably how most people write books, but then when you get there and we and I know for me when I see it in book form and it’s like there’s chapter 1, it’s like, OK, here we go, here we go. And that one kind of sets the tone, you know, audio versus video because again, we went into it with, like, there’s people. Hopefully that may buy it that only have done audio. OK, well, tell me about this video thing. And then there’s also those folks that have never started. So what’s really the? Difference. So you know, it’s probably that one, but I mean you know the whole thing was just was a blast. I mean just going through it’s like does this make sense? Does it make sense now, do we need this, do we need to add something to it? I mean it’s it’s on my second book, but what a cool project it was just to to get out there.

Ross:

Yeah, yeah, I I know. I wanna write more like.

You know, I want to do more and more books now after this. Like it’s just OK, you know, I did my predictions booked. I had 113 co-authors, you know. And and now you know. So a small part of the book is actually my writing and a lot of it is is getting other people stuff together and.

Rob:

That’s good.

Ross:

Editing it and so forth. Now I did. Half of a. Book and it’s like, wow, that’s really cool. Yeah, I wanna. I wanna keep taking a bigger bite at this apple. I really enjoy the. Process, but I I don’t think anything else that I do will be quite like this, where we literally wrote the book through conversation and.

You know, I feel like we were totally, you know, on the same page in terms of, yeah, this is working. This is good. Let’s keep going. And, you know, Kevin said about the first the first chapter, and it’s sort of like.

That’s a chapter where we found out whether we had a book or not, because one we found out that this format works for putting a book together and we we work well in this, but also we could make the case of why you would do video or why you would do an audio podcast and where the opportunity is and why we think. It’s the right time for the book. So if we didn’t have anything to say in that chapter, there would have been no point doing it. Chapter 10, no.

Rob:

No question on that one. And I’ve said this to both of you. I’m waiting for the sequel to this book, so. So I I’ve. Been issuing the challenge now I I so enjoyed.

Ross:

I wouldn’t stay out in the race.

Kevin:

You hold your breath.

Ross:

I might even that one the I enjoyed Kevin. I was saying to Ross freaking on the record. The conversational approach so much that it has forced me to change the way I do my show notes for my video podcast. And that means I am now starting with this episode, putting not just putting out.

Kevin:

Wow.

Rob:

Word transcripts. I’m putting author names in of who said what because of the your books. So.

Kevin:

That’s very flattering. That’s good to hear. Thank you.

Rob:

Yeah, enjoyed that. And that’s how I run my show. I mean, I’ve had, I’ve had guests come to me and say, can you give me 20 questions? And I say, you know what? You’re not the guest for me. It’s not happening. Yeah, I might give you 1. I delete. I might give you a second, but I’m not giving you 20 because I’m not a journalist. I’m not a.

Kevin:

Yeah.

Rob:

And I don’t like that approach. I like what we’re doing here and sitting down and chatting three friends talking about the project you guys did.

Ross:

Yeah. Yeah, I always feel when somebody wants to give me the questions ahead of time. I mean, I don’t want homework if I if I’m not able.

Kevin:

Yeah.

Ross:

To talk about a subject that I spend all day on off the top of my head and answer any question you could throw at me. You know I I should be able to handle it or or you know it’s OK to also say you don’t know. I mean, we were talking about this the the other day, even people who are experts. In in the industry at the highest. People, they’re experts in one area, they’re not experts in every single thing, which is what we expect in a lot of ways of the independent creator is you are, you know, you’re the bookkeeper, you’re the CEO, you’re the, you’re the show host. You’re the editor. You’re the social media marketing person.

You’re the finance, like you’re everything and you know nobody should have to feel the pressure of having to be, you know, exceptional at every one of. Of those things, and it’s OK to get a question when you’re a host. They’re a guest and say, yeah, I don’t know the answer to that, but that’s not, you know, an area.

Kevin:

But I I’m. Yeah. Yeah, I’m straight up when somebody wants me on the show and they say, well, I’m gonna send you some questions. I’m like, that’s fine. But I’m not gonna prepare my answers ahead of time. I mean, it’s like, you know, there. I mean, I and I get it from their standpoint. I mean, I make glance at them, but it’s like, OK, well, how do. I want to. Answer this one. It’s like I love the. I love the spontaneity. I just do and I and it’s more of a conversation. There’s a there was a local music show, and here several years ago and I got to host it, so we recorded it for, you know, syndication, everything like that. And so part of it was they wanted me to interview the bands when it was over, which I was like, cool with that because. You know, I kind. Of got paid to go to a concert. And then I got to interview him. Well, the producer was like, you know, well, are you gonna show him the questions ahead of time? And I’m like, no. And they’re like, well, they wanna know him. I’m like it, dude, it’s not 60 minutes. I’m not going to like all of a sudden not well. Before you recorded that, were you actually, you know, and it’s like they’ll be OK. They’ll be fine. And we had a blast because they knew I wasn’t. You know, I’m not trying to trap. I want to find out more about them and their music and how they came up with their band name and, like, and just like, I can’t snap anymore. But just like that. They’re comfortable, they’re OK.

Ross:

Right. You’re not covering breaking news where it’s like, you know. Hey.

Kevin:

That’s just him. They’ve got a song.

Ross:

Yeah. Right. Right, right. You’re you’re you’re asking them about something that they know more than you know. They’ve forgotten more than you’ll ever know about. Like, if they don’t know what they’re doing and their music is then. You know, how are you supposed to come up with a question they can’t answer about their own song? You know, you might come up with a question they don’t wanna answer, but that’s. A different story. Yeah, but I agree. I I love what you said there, Kevin. I never. I don’t know if I ever exactly put my finger on why I didn’t like getting the questions ahead of time. But you’re right. There’s a tendency. If you’re going to prepare, it’s like. What is the best strategic answer that I could give that will help my business or whatever? And I really enjoy the fact that I get a question that I wasn’t expecting and I have to figure out and and what comes out is what I really think about it. And I think that’s, you know that makes for a better show it also. You know, kind of test test you as the guest like you know, what do I believe? What do I feel about this? What do I think is coming next and and having the audience see you. Kind of. Playing with these ideas and and and coming up with your opinion, your analysis, whatever it’s like. Yeah, that’s kind of good. That’s good. That’s good. That’s a good show. Might not be the, you know, the perfect thing for your business. But nobody wants perfect. I don’t think. Yeah.

Rob:

One of the reasons I don’t like giving the questions ahead of time is, depending on what the response is, where I’m going to take the next question behind me, so me with leeway to be able to say ohh. Kevin answered. This way I like his answer. I don’t like his answer. Let’s challenge him and.

Kevin:

Yeah, that’s yeah, yeah.

Rob:

Let’s go there and I’ve done that before and some of the best conversations I had, I did one a couple weeks ago where I walked out of the interview and I said, Oh my God. That’s one of the best ones I’ve done and it didn’t go anywhere where I thought it.

Kevin:

Was gonna go. Yeah. And I have a feeling the audience probably had. They heard if they could have heard both versions, they would have liked the one that you were just talking about. Better. Yeah. Because it’s it’s you. You’re kind of taking whether it’s the viewer or their listener, you kind of taking them on for a ride. Anyway. You know, and if if I’m bored or it just sounds so canned or whatever, I’m I. I bounce. I’m done. I got, I got, I got. I can either take a nap or.

Just do something else.

Rob:

Like really thanks for all your wisdom. Thanks for writing the book. Like, really it’s. I don’t say it lightly. I’ve I think cause Tom Ross have recommended it to dozens of people already. I think it’s. Just it’s gotta go in your library. It’s already in mine at the hardcover. Ross will be coming in my library soon, I’m sure. But.

Ross:

Ohh nice.

Rob:

Very nice. You know, I I just, I just think it’s important if you want to leave people with one last video podcasting tip, let’s go to Kevin. What would you say you should?

Kevin:

Well, and I would say especially if you haven’t started or you’re switching over is give yourself grace, just just do it. I mean, don’t go in with all these lofty expectations and you got to get it right. You got to do everything. Just go in to have fun, to explore it, and just whatever happens, roll with it. But. You know, just just have more fun up front because you know, at some point, if it turns into a business, there’s a whole other thing to figure out. But just give yourself a lot of grace and just hit record or live. Or whatever it is.

Ross:

Same question if you’re an audio podcaster and you’ve got some experience in this and you’re just wondering how do I do video, what do I need to do? What do I need to get? Literally, just do what you always do, but turn on your webcam or whatever camera you have hit record and.

Rob:

Quest.

Ross:

And. You know, you may feel OK looking at the camera, but if you forget about it, that’s OK too. And and just tell yourself I’m just going to take a 32nd clip of the video and I’m going to put that out on Instagram or I’m going to make a YouTube short out of it or, you know, maybe I’ll take a 3 minute clip and of 1 theme or one question and I’ll make a video of that. For YouTube starts slowly, but then eventually you’re going to realize you know. What I I want to be in the video game. Like what? What could I do better than get my stuff on YouTube or Spotify? Why not just record the whole episode and why? Why not just use the whole video? I have it already, so I think I think you can step into it slowly but but forget about. Getting the right camera and all that stuff. Just just start doing video and and get into the game on on YouTube or Instagram or wherever you feel comfortable uploading a video. Whether it’s two hours or 30 seconds and then. And you know, you’ll eventually, you’ll know what camera you need or what gear you want, or any of that stuff, but start start. Just start, like Kevin said. Really it comes down to that, right? Just just start, yeah.

Rob:

No question, Ross, if somebody wants to get a hold of you, talk about podcasting live stream, where’s the best way and what’s your YouTube channel?

Ross:

Sure, livestreamuniverse.com is the website and the YouTube channel is. At livestreamuniverseyoutube.com slash at Live Stream universe.

Rob:

And Kevin, what is your YouTube channel? The best way to get a hold of you? On your podcast? Yeah, YouTube is.

Kevin:

At Kevin Kolbe, and that’s Kolbe. And website is also Kevinkolbe.com. And either one of those would be great.

Rob:

Thanks guys, really enjoyed the chat and thanks for doing the book. It’s I think you’re gonna help a lot of people much appreciate. It thanks.

Kevin:

Thank you so much. And the next time I’ll be on time.

Ross:

Yeah. Thanks for having us and thanks for all the support for the book. We appreciate it.

Rob:

You’re welcome.