Al Robert Cairns here, I’m the CEO and Chief creator of amazing ideas that stunning Digital Marketing. Today I thought I’d do a little differently on this podcast. As we all go through the COVID-19 podcast. I got my good friend Devinder Singh Kennett, to join me on this podcast to talk about what it’s like in India. And I talk a little bit about what it’s like in Toronto in North America to give you people some insights on what different areas in the world are doing to combat COVID-19. So without further ado, let’s go to the news. And then my podcast with the vendor.
In the news for today, for those who have been under a bubble, Boris Johnson, the prime minister of the UK is in ICU right now. Battling COVID-19. Yesterday, see you a couple of days ago. Apparently, he’s not on a ventilator at this point in time, but is on oxygen. We wish the Prime Minister all the best in his recovery. The Queen of England took to the airwaves on Sunday. And frankly, she had a calming voice, a message the world needed to hear. And one of her messages was look for the future. There’s no question we need to think about the future. And we need to think about it now. In other notes, local news in Toronto area, probably in the restaurants become a problem where people are actually dropping their masks and gloves on the ground, folks, this could be contaminated equipment, please dispose of it properly and safely. And please take care of your environment as well as the other people around it. We don’t need any secondary exposures. Thank you very much. We just need to keep working all together. There’s some discussion now that Major League Baseball might actually try and start the season in some empty ballparks. Frankly, I don’t think it will be as exciting or it’s fun to watch. Point in check. I watched WrestleMania on the weekend just to see what was going on there. And the wrestling was good. But there was something missing about the atmosphere without a crowd being there. And all the matches were actually pre taped. I think the WWE actually did their best they could under adverse conditions. But starting sports off without a crowd. I don’t think that’s really a good move. Do me one favor as we enter the Easter Passover weekend’s don’t have big gatherings, stay home, and, you know, communicate with your loved ones. One of the good ways you can use is Google duo, which is free and Google duo just expanded. Its to go from eight people to 12 people. So that’s one more Avenue, as well as zoom, and a multiple of other ways to communicate with the world. So stay in touch via virtually use the conferencing software, and please stay home and be safe. And now on to this week’s podcast with the vendor.
Yep. morning, everybody. I’m here with my friend vendor sin, an iOS butchering. I’m sorry, Davinder. I don’t know why the finger lives in India. So I thought we’d have a little bit of a chat. Just a casual chat about the differences between how Indians react in the COVID-19 how North American is. How are you today?
I’m doing good. Very well.
Good. How’s your family doing and all this in the COVID-19? issues?
Well, all are at home. Some are watching television, some are cooking. Some gets an opportunity to deep clean the house. Yeah, sometimes get the opportunity to sleep more.
And in your case, I from talking to you you’re working on right.
Yeah, because, to be honest, nothing has changed for me, as far as work wise work goes because I’ve been working from home for almost like 15 years now. So I have my schedule. Right from morning to evening. So that remains Yes. The only difference is I don’t get to go out for my evening walks. But that’s fine. It will begin once the situation is settled, which I’m sure most of us don’t know, the end of this for now.
Now, it’s so true. I I think I was telling you offline we in Ontario. we’ve extended our state of emergency by a couple weeks. So We’re, we’re that our schools are effectively closed now till May, so we say can guarantee it’s going to extended again. And our teachers are actually teaching their students online from home, I have a good friend of mine who’s using Google Classroom actually, to put if you know, Google Classroom to put assignments upon. So there’s a lot of that going on, is your daughter still in school, or she kind of
you know, the funny part is like, March is the period, or is the month when the exams happen, or the test for students happen in April is the start of the next session. So since my daughter is in very small class, she’s in kindergarten, so they don’t have exams. So March 1 week, my daughter and my wife went to in laws for a holiday. And now they’re stuck there. Because the lockdown was announced, but they are enjoying their because they’ve got, my daughter got their grandparents there. And other people around in the house, so they are enjoying them, no big deal. It’s just like an house, another house. So I’m here with my parents, and my wife, and my kiddo is with, she’s with her parents, like her grandparents, and my wife’s brother is also there. And my wife’s brother’s wife has also gone to her parents, and she’s stuck there. Because this is the month when everyone goes to your grandparents house to have a little holiday. And normally, you know, the session starts in April, but now we are under lockdown for three weeks now.
Yes, sir. Not really going anywhere. It’s like, it’s like I saying, my my wife, Jill has not a good immune system. So she’s basically he’s been staying in. And I know in our household if I if we need something, the once a week to this trip to the store the bank is on is on me kind of thing. So we’re just kind of I mean, it’s nice out here today, it’s sunny, people want to get out. But this shouldn’t be. In India yet mentioned, you have a few people that are still actually breaking the rules, kind of.
Yeah, humans are complex creatures, some understand things, some don’t. So the problem is, even one person breaking the rule, and going out can infect 1000s of people because this is not like a normal virus that we have dealt before. It’s highly communicable. It spreads like wildfire. And the funny part is, a person might be infected with it, and he may not have any symptoms. So you probably would be acting like a superman saying, Oh, I’m not infected, I’m perfectly fine. I can go out and get you could be spreading infection. So there, there are a lot of cases of this happening. And guess what, in Indian style, police treat them by breeding them, but sticks.
Yeah. I mean, we have the same problem here too. We have. We live in a highly Jewish orthodox area in Toronto. And we have one of the biggest Jewish orthodox populations in North America, New York’s kind of number one. And, you know, if you’ve been watching the world, you know what’s going on in New York City right now it’s a bit of a map. And they here the problem with that population is they don’t believe in social distancing staying at home, they’re, they’re still out socializing. And, frankly, I wish people would just kind of Listen, there’s a reason the government’s telling you to stay home. I don’t care if you’re in India, if you’re in Canada, if you’re in Japan, if you’re in the US just stay home, right?
Yeah, government has been really strict and no wonder. It is showing in the stats like for a country like India, the size in terms of population, 1.3 billion people, the number of cases, deaths and infections still very low compared to other countries, which is good, primarily because they’ve been enforcing the lockdown really well, especially in bigger cities. And you know, the tier two cities, the lockdown is pretty strict. Yes, there are few things in religious and all that but their government is getting their act together with police getting free hand. Obviously, there’s two sides of story, there will be people saying that, oh, human rights violations are happening and this and that. But then, you know, you need to balance things out. Because if someone is venturing out for no valid reason, no medical emergency, not buying essentials, and just going out to see how empty roads look. You’ve got to go stick.
Yeah, are you? I know from pictures in the media I’ve seen you’ve actually got your military out on the streets telling people to stay home. are you actually going to the point where you’re finding and jailing people or as an idea at that point,
yet, militaries only in certain specific sensitive states and regions, not in our Yes, they are they have barricades everywhere like, like in our inner roads, they are no barricades, no police. But when you go out because here, they only have one or two exit points to the highway, right. So you cannot go to the highway because they barricaded, you got to show your eba. Either you have to pass or you have some document to show that you have emergency going on. And if you don’t have and you’re traveling, guess what you get arrested. So here, what they’ve done is they’ve made they’ve converted a local Cricket Stadium into a temporary jail. So what a shame. But you make an offense, you go to that stadium, spend the night there, and then they will release it the next day, because they don’t want to keep you forever. Because you know, you might be spreading, you know, viruses. So it’s just a lesson for you, you could spend a night there, then go to the home. And again next day you try, you know where you will land up. So they’ve converted a big Cricket Stadium here as a temporary jail. So
there’s that. Yeah, the approach they’ve taken in Toronto actually is they’re handing out fines to individuals who, you know, they don’t social distance in parks and stuff. They’re towing cars, they’re, they’re starting to come down on businesses who should not be open with big fines. So there’s going to be some people with a rude awakening. What is your government doing in India? Because I haven’t read to help people have lost income or stuff like that, are you putting any programs in place to help anybody to know?
Well, they’ve announced that obviously, if you are giving some EMI is or you are paying for some debt, banks have given three months waiver, like you don’t need to pay monthly installment for three months, and there will be no extra charges and all that stuff. That’s for the people who are under EMI and all that stuff. But the people who are, you know, the more people that need help are the people who are poor, and India does have big populations is actually poor, in terms of they live on weekly or day to day basis on, you know, money wise. So what they’ve done is they are giving them free groceries free ration. And you know, in India, poor people, they have a card that identifies them that they are in certain category of poverty line. So based on that card, they are getting specific set of money directly transfer to their bank account.
you can use it during this 20 period 20 days period when they don’t have any income to live by. plus, India fortunately has lot of charities a lot of religious institutions that help poor. So there are community kitchens, almost in every city where people are fed daily on housands of bases. So,
so that’s pretty
good. Yeah, but you know what, it doesn’t matter which disaster comes it’s just the poor that suffers the most not your middle class or the rich.
No, no question. It’s funny. I was in a grocery store this morning. And the one the things that we’re taking runs on in the store it’s really interesting first it was you read all the stories about toilet paper and yeah, I don’t have that problem because we buy we basically buy for six weeks at a time so that’s because we buy big but and I’m not hoarding that’s just how we’ve always bought the runs right now we’re on things like milk, eggs, believe it or not flour and sugar and you say why flour and sugar because all these Canadians are at home, but nothing to do so they’re all baking they’re all baking and my wife included by the way my wife Jill walked in the door today no cookies made again for like the fifth time this week and I think tomorrow’s recipe of choices butter tarts so there There you go. So so we’re taking runs on a few staples from we’re not we’re not terrible I mean the the food chain is working how’s the food supply in India is going okay
I think the first day we had a problem getting milk and bread
then because it was very strict and not many people were clear what was allowed what wasn’t even the police wasn’t clear about it to be honest because it was announced like last night and the next day you are trying to figure out what to do what not to do that the second day it was all okay because we have like you know, milk and bread, eggs, you know these kind of things that are available in very local shops which are like five to 10 minutes walking distance. Other than that vegetables we usually have farmers market, those are closed because you cannot practice social distancing in a farmers market. No. So but we do have alternative you know, thing that runs in parallel which is vendors vendors with carts, they usually come into your inner lanes next to your house. So they they have increased now because the farmers market is closed. So all they produce is coming on carts and now you can buy anything by staying at your home. Yeah, by just opening your door and you’re not telling me I want this and, and other than than the online delivery is all shot, Amazon and all those big players, they are not delivering anything like they are, they are completely shut down. So people are relying on these local things. And as far as the other stuff, we normally it’s a normal Indian households that you buy, you know, the flour, sugar and all that stuff for whole month. Yeah, like once in, we don’t do weekly shopping for those things. So most of the houses would already have like few weeks of stuff with them. So we don’t
either actually baking stuff you do want someone to so
yeah, but again, the problem comes to people who are poor who don’t buy for month because they don’t have money to buy it for a month. So for them, things are a little hard, but government is trying to help to an extent they can. But there are other charities that are really a lot of people are showing such a nice side of theirs by donating and things which is really heartening to see it brings a country as one together even though we are like bought boiler have all kinds of you know, like different colors and all that stuff. But it’s good to see. And it could be like a bad thing, maybe bringing people together, but it’s still bringing people together.
I would agree. I would I would tell you in Canada, one of the things that I think that this has happened is it is united our country in a big way. I mean, we have a lot of issues, and politically, and even the different political factions in our country are all on the same page right now. So I think people have united and it’s it’s tough to see that a crisis and this is probably the worst crisis the world has had since World War Two, in my opinion. And World War Two was not fought on Canadian soil. So we haven’t seen anything to this extent A lot of it was in Europe and you know, in Asia and we haven’t seen it to this extent. So
yeah, because ever since I’ve been born, like I’ve never seen such kind of a situation where everything is closed. And you know, we have other things like dengue, you malaria, SARS Mas, but these problems are only isolated to certain areas of our country or a region, but this Coronavirus is highly communicable like it maybe transfers with mediums that scientists are yet to discover.
so really don’t know but it it spreads like wildfire
visual people need to be smart. I mean, I walked into the bank for a walk into a grocery store. And I tell you I wash my hands before I walk into a store because I have a bottle of hand sanitizer in my bag. And that wasn’t because even Coronavirus. I’ve always carried one. I wash my hands in the bank. Before I talked to the teller I wash my hands. After I talked to the teller I washed my hands when I walked out. I’m not paranoid, but I mean, if you want to keep the spread down, that’s what you have to do. It’s that killer. Yeah.
Because in public places, though, knobs, handles, and even the currency notes they are,
they’re full of all the bacteria, as you can tell, you can only see under the microscope, but not we have a number of big stores who will not take currency right now. It’s credit or or what we call debit right into your bank account, tap your card and go there just not taking anything. So as your prime minister have been very visible in all this and the leader of your country.
Yeah, he’s been very active, like, he may not be the perfect person. But then all leaders get flagged for certain things. But he’s been really proactive. And he took a very hard decision in a place where he is because you know, India relies big on economic activity within our country, because we don’t export that much. If you compare it with China or even us, right. We have big internal consumption. That is what runs the economy. And obviously we import a lot but export, we don’t do much. And stopping your own home engine is like stopping the money cycle. But he realizes that a country like India where social distancing would not be possible for big chunk of population because they live so close by this disease can spread like wildfire and he you’ve got to commend him for being very brave and shutting down a country and here not a state by state shutdown happen. The whole country went into lockdown on the same time on the same date. Obviously, our state went into lockdown a week before the national lockdown because our state had 90,000 non resident Indians coming out of all different countries. Wow, India, India. Yeah. So because of this, obviously, you know, when panic spreads, people want to go back to their own homeland, but they may not be living here. So when 90,000 plus comes to just one state where I live, there’s always a panic, how do you screen so many people? How do you attract so many people? So our state was under lockdown, and they were searching for every person that came back during that one week from us, it doesn’t matter from which country so they were pasting, you know, stickers outside their home that, you know, normal public person should enter their house. And they were checking them every other day for the temperature and all that which I found it very funny because normally government is not supposed to be that efficient, but they were very efficient in
their, it’s funny in in Ontario, I was mentioned to you before we got on the call. And while we were singing Canada’s long term care homes. We have one long term care home north of Toronto, where we’ve had 17 deaths already. And we’ve had I think we’re up around somewhere around 25 or 30 staff that have been infected in that same home, we’ve got another home, right in the city of Toronto, it’s had eight. The problem with elderly is they already a lot of them have issues already. So just sort of compounds that if you know what I mean. So we’re seeing that we’ve got in Ontario, something like 400 long term care homes that have excuse me, at least one case, believe it or not, so it’s becoming an issue. The other issue we’re having here is all our snowbirds have just come back from Florida. And if you’ve been following the news, you know, the state of Florida and the governor in Florida is a bit of a disaster. I mean, they’ve all come home. And my mom is from a rural northern Quebec town, which is one of our provinces. And that rural town, which is 12 hours north of Montreal already has over 45 cases, just because the snowbirds coming home and saying here you go. It’s a bit of a problem. So your you mentioned your work continues. So you’re you’re doing Do you have any advice to some business owners out there who are struggling right now and what they should do while they’re bored or during downtime?
I think the biggest would be for those businesses who have never taken the online medium of doing the business seriously. Now is the time to take pause and think about it. And also take action. Now the thing is a lot of people would jump in, during these two, three weeks when everything is shut down. Hey, I need to get online. But once everything is open, they get busy with their offline store offline business. Yeah, I was supposed to do something online, but maybe we’ll do next time. Maybe I don’t have time for me. So if you have this kind of mentality, guess what Be it Coronavirus, or any virus or any situation, you can never leverage online. I think people should realize that online can be a parallel medium to get more sales, get more business for any type of business. It’s just you got to be a little creative and look for an expert help who has done it. Because most people have this perception, hey, I need an online presence. That means I need a website. Yes, you need a website. But you need a website that works for your business. There’s a difference between both of them. There’s a website, there’s a website that works with business. Yes, and most people who want to get They only know they want a website. And most people who offer those service only know that I can only make a website, but a website that works you need experienced professionals who know how to convert your leads into customers. And that is where the money lies.
Yeah, I agree with it. And the way they get those leads is you have to generate traffic to your website. So a lot of really good web designers don’t understand leads don’t understand traffic. They don’t understand Facebook ads. They don’t understand. You know, we were talking before we got on this call. One of the things I keep saying to my clients and all this if you’re going to advertise now’s the time, keywords are being bid for less than ever before. Google and Facebook are offering discounts or free ad credits if you spend money so why wouldn’t you and I’ve got kleinem jumping on a call with this afternoon who they they now want to move to an online booking system and I’ve been pushing them for six months and It’s It’s time it, it really is time to sit down and look at your business and say, by the way, what can I automate? What do I do five times in a day that I should just automate and be done with?
Yeah, adding an online medium to your business is just like adding another flow to your house. If you are not, in then it will serve you in some way or the other, even when the situation becomes normal. And there’s no Coronavirus or any other pandemic fear that one floor that you add to your business is going to contribute to some extent, again, it will depend on how you use that floorspace because everyone will have different amount of time that they will, again, if you want to get output, you got to put some input, right. So you need to put some input in terms of what you want and work with an expert and not just any other. I know because in our ecosystem, there are so many people who can build website, but there are not many people who can build websites that works. So for clients, you need to as a client, you need to be smart enough to identify and find the right person to do it for you. Yeah.
And you know, it’s funny, as people move to the online world of people like you and I have used things like zoom, Microsoft Teams, if you’ve dabbled in that a lot of teachers are moving to Google Classroom in a real Hurry and all this. And if you pick up the media, our favorite tool, even though we’re doing audio, only that we that we both love to use zoom has been all over the media this week about how zoom is bad how privacy is bad. I personally think it’s people not understanding how to set the tool up versus the privacy. Do you have any thoughts on that? Or do not even want to go there?
Yeah, because, you know, this is a classic thing, like, just going off track a little like other day someone was saying page builders or bar for your websites and all that.
Now I saw that combo.
I was surprised. I would say like, page builders are not bad. It’s how you use page builder. That is bad. So that doesn’t. Now if you cause an accident, you don’t blame Honda. For the car. You were driving, it was you who caused the accident, right? So this is this is kind of a thing. And with zoom, I don’t think so, you know, this is, again, this is lack of knowledge. Like my privacy is this and that. But tell me, how many of you how many people do actually read terms and conditions, no one actually reads it even with GDPR. And all that stuff. Terms and Conditions. Privacy pages are still like a bibliographic. Yeah, mammoth pages, which no one wants to read, they want to scroll down. And
I don’t remember the last time I read one.
No one reads it. And guess what? People are making so much noise about zoom and all that stuff. When you install Gmail client on your phone, or when you install Facebook, on your phone, or when you install Instagram, tick tock and all that stuff. What about what happens to your privacy? Don’t they take your data, they even better when you install Uber on your phone? Uber knows and sells your data where you’ve traveled to? Exactly they know every second of time that you’ve spent on which place? And how much time did you know? Yeah, and actually they can pinpoint the exact location in that place. Even when you’re in a building, they can tell you which two rooms they were you were at Google
Maps is now yelling at me to review the bank I was in this morning. So there There you go. But and i and i agree with you,
and why the services are free. These are free, not because they’re providing you with some charity or something. They make money from your data. Simple. And what zoom makes money from zooms, zoom will also take some data, obviously they have paid plans and all that. But they also have liberal free plan. So if you’re using your data to make more business, I don’t see any harm with it. you clicked on accepted on their privacy policies, and terms and conditions. Now you didn’t read it. That’s your problem.
I actually think we need to change the word free to no cost. And, and the reason I say that is I was in a grocery store this morning. Doing my once a week shopping like a good boy that I’m supposed to be before I go hide in my cave. And what’s the first thing that the cashier said to me? Do you have your points card and the mini enum that points card they know my frequency have come in. This is even pre internet. They know what I spent what my average spend is how often I come Yeah, get something for using that points card, but it’s not free. The cost is your data. And you know people get on Facebook all the time and they complain about oh Facebook does this and Facebook does that. If you read the Terms of Service It’s all there. What we need to do is get lawmakers who are at the government levels who don’t understand technology just to stay awake. That’s the bigger problem.
The only rule we have in Canada, right now with digital privacy is you cannot add somebody to a mailing list without your express consent. So and and that doesn’t mean walking in to a store. And you know, you’ve seen stores, I know, if you do in India, where people say to sign up to our mailing list, put your email address here, you still have to send them a confirmation. But it doesn’t mean double opt in here, as long as you have expressed consent. And we’ve actually find companies millions of dollars for breaking that consent, because they assume, you know, you go to a networking event and some guy takes your name and adds it to his mailing list. That’s like, a big No, no. So but i think you know, I think the reason gyms getting so much attention, I don’t know, if you look there, they their share price has gone from $20 a share to $190 a share. And I’m smiling because guess what I invested in three and a half weeks ago. So I saw it coming. I mean, I mean, to be fair, I’ve also been playing with Microsoft Teams and all this.
So I’m talking to a rich guy now.
Yeah, thank you. But I’ve riches only the value of what you’ve got. So you can be rich and more than just money. Exactly.
Some, actually, a lot of people, you know, ask me like, how do you how much money do you make every month like, people are so curious about that, as you know, money is a state of mind, like my state of mind, may call me rich, or may call me poor, depending on you know, what any finger sticks in the media in terms of my head.
So this out, somebody said, Oh, you need to win the lottery. And I and I said, in my response has been when I met when I got back together with my wife. And you know, I’ve talked about that story pretty publicly. And we got married that was winning the lottery. So it’s all your perspective on things if you exactly.
half glass half full, half empty, glass dirty, glass about to fall, it’s all about perception how you be able to see that hand.
Yeah, the other thing worth mentioning, as we move on is if the biggest problem right now I’m seeing and I’m getting calls from clients is they all have their people working at home. And none of these people understand computer security. And now they’re all working in home, which is just compounding the issue even more, because now you’ve you’ve taken, you know, workers who work for major corporations in thrown at home with no IT support, no security knowledge, no nothing. And they’re all having problems. And what I’ll share with people on this call is the we sell our beer in what we call beer stores. They’re basically government run stores that sell only beer, and they got hit with a ransomware attack in Ontario. Were down for five days actually, in the midst of all this mess. That’s not, no not at all. But you know, all these people, these teachers, these business owners are all working from home. And now they don’t have security protection for what they’re doing. That’s even a bigger problem
is you know, they will blame Microsoft because that’s windows, right? Yeah, working on Windows or Apple will get the flack.
Yeah, yeah. Do you before we go Do you have one tip for a business owner for something they should do to help their business right now in this downtime? One quick tip.
I think it’s a good time for everyone. Whether you have online presence or you don’t have online presence, to look how online setup can help your business in more productive and more efficient down the line because the online world is bound to grow. It is not gonna you know, it’s not gonna contract. It’s just expanding day by day. So how you can and obviously there are certain types of business which can also leverage by hiring remote people because in our ecosystem, lots of Big companies have almost 80% of their workforce as remote, which helps you a lot. Obviously, remote has advantages and disadvantages. So it depends on your business. But the bottom line would be, explore how online things can help your business being more productive, more efficient, and more, you know, future proof, because these kind of events will happen. Again, it could be a different virus name, it could be a different, it could be a war, you never know. Because the way people are building missiles and all that stuff these days, so you never know. So see how you can be more future proof. How you can serve your clients, even when your physical presence or your offline presence goes for a toss, like in this situation. So obviously, it won’t apply to every business. But at least with all with one set online piece, there’s one standard, you know, medium with which you can communicate with your customers on a regular basis. Like, even if a business is offline, say for example, there’s a furniture shop that makes furniture, custom furniture, obviously, such kind of business will be completely offline like person will come to a shop and see what they want to order it. But now in this time, and scenario, the shop would be closed, right? But if you already had the online medium setup, you can always communicate with your customers, you can actually pre sell things you can pre and bring in the money more, you know, in early in your business and offer them discount a lot of I’ve seen a lot of people do that, like they’re, they’re offering them discounts and so that they will deliver the product, a physical product down the line when things get stable, but they’re bringing in the money because they need money. So getting money from customer is a better thing than getting money from Bank as a loan. Right?
Yeah, I would agree. Thanks the vendor. If somebody wants to get a hold of you for some coaching or help how’s the best way?
Well, I run a lot of websites which I’m not gonna name and spam the show but you can you can search for my name Devinder Singh Kham on Facebook or you can go to my website called Smart web creators.com
Yeah, and and by the way, join the spark web creators I’m going to spam the show community on on Facebook there’s there’s a lot of good people in there that can help you and help you you know, with your business and and help you succeed. Yeah, I’m
always on Facebook, you can go to Facebook slash I for India, followed by the vendor da bi end er, and you can connect with me anytime but I’m always on Facebook. I love Facebook, even though they take all my data, but that’s fine.
Thanks to a vendor, have a great day be safe and please take care of your family.
You too. Nice chatting with you. Bye.
Bye. I want
to thank you for joining and the vendor and I for this great chat on the differences between India and North America during the COVID-19 crisis. For further marketing information, or any help with your business you can reach me via my website at stunning digital marketing comm You can also reach out on Twitter. I’m at Rob Karen’s This podcast is dedicated to my right father, Bruce Cairns, I miss you very much. As always keep your feet on the ground. Keep reaching for the stars and make your business succeed. Bye for now.