Episode 3:The State of Web Design for 2019 With Owen Greaves

Show Notes

Good afternoon, everybody, Rob Cairns, CEO and Chief Creator of making ideas that stunning digital marketing calm. I’m glad you could join me for today’s chat with Owen Greaves. Owen and I have known each other for over 10 years on a multitude of internet platforms even before social media became fashionable, now become comm friends own lives in the amazing province of British Columbia. And as many of you know, I’m in Toronto. Despite having never met in person, over the years, we are actually really great friends and enjoy each other’s company enjoy many a discussion. Today we talk about sort of the future web design going into 2019. Owen has a couple of websites one is own Greece calm. And he operates a web hosting company at Philly hosts.com. If you need good web hosting, get in touch with Owen, tell him why century ago. Such app is really great to work with it, frankly, knows what he’s doing. So please sit down, relax, put your feet up and enjoy your own and I talking well, web design with a little social media mixed in the future of that moving in 2019 some trends and concerns, and where we see the industry going. Hope you enjoy this. talk to y’all soon. We have two, according now. So here with my friend Owen, and we’re going to talk a little bit about website trends. What do you see being the first big thing in websites this year in 2019?

Owen

Well, hello, Rob, really good to see you go. trends and websites. I don’t know what I think about what’s going on with web design, and how everybody’s trying to get websites built the easiest way possible. Like that’s why Wix and Square Pants and all these other can services have come alive. And even cPanel is trying to make it easy for clients, like siteground, for example. But they’re going to do the integrating into cPanel. And the web hosting manager. All of the staging mechanism was just automatically going to be there. You don’t have to go by special WordPress hosting, because they’ve got all these extra fancy tools are all coming. And then of course, as there is some company out there that’s doing you know, get a website built by aim going I have no idea what that means. So do I think web design is in trouble? No chance. Still people out there hard coding.

Rob

I would agree with you. And kind of the way I look at this. You almost have to design for mobile first. I really believe that mobile’s about 60% of all web searches, give or take him, depending on who you listen to. I think the day is coming where we’re both you and I develop in the WordPress world where we’re going to start building Voice Search into our WordPress sites this year. I see that coming.

Owen

And you can thank Amazon and Google for leading that charge and apple. So between Alexa, I have a couple Google Home, Siri, and Google voice assistant, right? People get on their phones and say, tell me this tell me that. That’s Voice Search. I also see personally I see. And I’ve already made the move. More and more people putting things like chatbots on their website or putting a message mean now on their website. I think we’re, I hate to say it read in instantaneous society right now. People want answers. Now.gratification, right?

Rob

But I also think leads convert better. So if you got somebody to ask you a web design question on your website, you answer within five minutes, your chances of converting that lead are better than if you send an email today. So

Owen

yeah, in regards to the whole chat mechanism on the website, you have to be there. Somebody has to be there to answer the chat. So you as the average person who had you build the website isn’t going to sit there and answer questions all day long. And most people aren’t going to get any traction anyways, because they don’t know how to market their websites.

Rob

That’s correct. And I also think so which brings me to our next discussion is the whole SEO pot, right. So I still think local SEO has a lot of traction to be gained. I’ve said time and time again, the best way to build local SEO is a Google My Business Page. It’s free, create one now, like, honestly, it will show up in Google search, if you’re in an area where it is no question. But at for long term SEO, unless you got a couple of 1000 bucks a month to throw at it, just better avenues to sort of,

Owen

you know, I remember back in the early 90s, when I was building websites that hard way. Remember, I built my first site on my first site, but it was when we had a composer, it was just fun to tinker. And he had the Blinky words and stuff like that, which drove everybody right, insane. That’s where I was going with this. But the the point I think I’m trying to make is that we’ve gone from having to know HTML, from having to know PHP, to having to go CSS, to having to node JavaScript, to not having to know any of that stuff. Like we’ve just got complete circle of, you know, all that time and money and effort that was put into learning all these languages. So it’s a programming languages. And today, you don’t need to you just need to drag and drop and, you know, look what I made.

Rob

I don’t I don’t disagree with it. I mean, I’m, I’m working over on my shelf over my shoulder or beside me. And I’ve got a CSS book called HTML and CSS. When do you think the last time I opened up?

Owen

Can’t be long, I’ve got that dynamic HTML that was put up by O’Reilly years ago.

Rob

But for fun sake, too, and I’ll show it to you sometime. I’ve also got an original visicalc package sitting right beside it so it’s kind of a souvenir but the point I’m making is we’re not programming that way anymore. I mean, if you go get a good site builder and I don’t care if you choose Beaver Builder Elementor your Beaver Builder Elementor

Owen

that was a big headway guy first.

Rob

I know you are so as I because if you actually, and no, don’t be. And I’ve, I’ve I tend to use Aveda. And you know, the narc, if you talk to niveda, folks is the Vedas. People will say has a large power drain and I keep saying so what did you do go buy cheap hosting, because you operate a web hosting company and hosting this party D equation, is it not?

Owen

It is in its best it should be put it that way. But what happens now or has been happening? Somebody has gone and gotten a Hostgator affiliate account, Salta hosting through the affiliate account, and then charge them for hosting again in their packaging or building a website. So they’re double dipping, right? And that’s you can’t stop that stuff. So

Rob

now there was a discussion, I was reading on a forum. And you know, I’m kind of all in with siteground. I have been for a while. But I’ve got another local host called boom host who I’ve been playing with just because I met the president that didn’t advance. So I said I would try it. You know, and and the bottom line is somebody was complaining that they went out got a shared account. And they had a WooCommerce site that had over 50 products. And it was dying. Well, of course, because because on that shared account, they also had five other sites. Yeah. And what people need to realize is, it’s not just the site, it’s the server, it’s the environment, and you need to buy for what you got, this particular person probably should have bought at least a VPS account, a virtual private server, or maybe a dedicated box,

Owen

right? So dedicated is such a interesting term. Because there’s dedicated you do all the work and that is dedicated, managed, and dedicated, doesn’t say the same thing to the average person that comes to buy web hosting that VPS you know, share it or whatever means it’s different. Even myself being in the hosting industry. I’ve had to make adjustments. I’ve had to go to go from just straight central surface to cloud Linux, which runs on top of Santos. And then all the resources are being managed by the cloud Linux and of course, cage Fs, which is every site is in its own little box if somebody hacks in, they can’t go anywhere else. All they can do is play in that box. So even the hosting industry has had to shift gears because hackers a don’t care the script kiddies or they don’t care. They just don’t care. Servers get attacked every day. Yeah, by the hour a couple 100 times an hour. So security becomes the big issue then, and even just with WordPress stock by itself. needs help. And you’ve been in the security business for a while. So you know that security is still going to be the number one issue. I don’t care until, you know, Jesus comes back.

Rob

And it’s getting worse to be honest with you. I mean, not better. So the so kind of my whole take on the hosting security game is the host isn’t the only solution. Excuse me, but it’s part of the solution. So, for example, and I’m going to take a shot at my most unfavored hosting group called endurance while I’m, while I’m

Owen

here, that’s almost everybody.

Rob

Yeah, that’s almost everybody. They don’t manage firewalls, they have terrible firewalls. And then they say, by the way, if you get hacked, we’ll hand you site locker and charge you $100 a month. No, thank you. So number one problem. So they keep their firewalls down to oversell their security product. And that’s just bad business. And then you take a host like you, you run a hosting company, or and what’s the URL on? The host.com? Going host.com or siteground? or any of the big hosts emotions? Another one that comes to mind? Yes, and they actually have turned their firewalls way up. Now they cause other problems. But I would rather that. So that’s Problem number one. Problem number two. And rule number two is do not depend on your web host for backups. And I have to stress this to people all the time. They said, Well, my wife hostess backup should have cPanel siteground does what happens after backup server gets hacked, then you’re done. So I always take caution to the wind and say, either run them weekly, or pay somebody to do it for you. So you, you’re better off safe than sorry.

Owen

Yeah, even even even our company. We have separate servers with SSD drives for our backups, they are not posted or shared or stored on the actual hosting server. And then number three is do your software and your security updates on a regular basis. Like that helps. Yeah, that’s, that’s almost becoming a full time job. And most people don’t, they don’t they don’t even think of it. Like they throw up a website. And they think that it’s just gone. live forever.

Rob

I have 387 security points. Now, I cheat. I have an automated scripting system that does it for me.

Owen

Let’s wait till they find out.

Rob

Yeah. It’s okay. They know. And the thing is, I met with a client who I’ve been talking to off and on right for Christmas. And she said to me, it was a security stuff, it takes my staff an hour and a half when we don’t have time to do this. And I said, so for 800 bucks a year, you wouldn’t be smart to pay somebody to do. And she said, and she quickly did the math and said, Where do I sign the cheque?

Owen

Yeah, it’s like, pay me now or pay me later pay me like,

Rob

and the problem is, if you get hacked, then it’s then you’re into 1000s of dollars, and it gets awful. So it’s I agree. And then number four becomes, you know, if your small business, have somebody in your toolbox, she can kind of go to like, somebody like you or somebody like me or resource or you can go to because small business owners, you know, there’s an old saying, if you can’t do some, hire somebody, if you’re not good at doing some hire somebody don’t like doing somebody hire somebody. concentrate on what makes you money.

Owen

Outsourcing is still cheaper than trying to waste all your time trying to figure it out. That’s just the way it is. It’s the same thing with building websites. There’s no I can do this on my own. And yes, you could, you could build a wonderful website, but you will learn nothing. Because you’re just dragging and dropping. And you won’t know why things work, you won’t know why they don’t work, and you won’t know how to fix them.

Rob

And you might not have an eye for design or an eye of where things go. For example, I don’t know how many websites I looked at, that somebody throws a slider up at the top, and it takes three quarters of the page above the scroll. And then they wonder why their message of their key information has been lost. Because you’ve taken all your prime real estate and thrown up a slider or pictures that provides no value except looks pretty

Owen

angry. Other pet peeve one is with the parallax

Rob

where Oh, yes, I knew that was coming. Like Come on. Seriously, can’t

Owen

you get a creative thought of your own?

Rob

Yeah. Cuz really what people from websites is how do I get on them quickly? How do I get my information and how do I contact you? Right?

Owen

And that’s why these camp systems are popular because they make it really easy for everybody to go do it themselves or have to pay somebody to do it and then what but then they get that and they go Yeah, but I want to add this and I want to add that and then they find out they can’t and they or they don’t know how then they gotta hire somebody.

Rob

So I have to toss a shout out to my favorite podcast called WP plugins ages. And one of the things that john overall and Marcus couch talked about Marcus has since left the show because of other commitments, not not because of bad blood or anything they talked about a couple months ago was, what you need to do as a web designer is create a menu of services. So for example, somebody wants to WooCommerce site and they want to pay shipping not included, they want coupons and they want this, you got to have pricing set that says, okay, a website, say five grand WooCommerce 100,000 bucks. And by the way, if you want a shipping module, that’s another 500 bucks, and sort of presented to clients as a menu, like you’re going into a restaurant.

Owen

Yeah, there’s just two thoughts there, because it also sounds like you’re just packing up to like a chicken with nickel and dime of the client. So all these things can cost so much. Or you could do the flat fee thing. But the problem with the flat fee for the designer is they always end up putting in more time with their should get paid for.

Rob

So one of the one of the things I know I do when I do websites is two things. And one is I put a tube revision cause in my contract that says you’ll have two major revisions, that’s it. And the other thing is, the client must from the date, the first payment is made, have all the information to me in two weeks or other charges. And that’s

Owen

getting the content up front is so critical. And we’ve all made the mistake of being a nice person to say, yeah, just send it to me. And then they sent it to me in a Word document. And I’m like, really don’t like that. And I go, Well, you just give it to me that because I ended up converting it to just plain text Anyways,

Rob

I’m actually in the process for that. And the marketing side of my business, I’m actually building out some Google Forms that I’m going to kick in in February, where people, when I take them on as a client, instead of doing onboarding an email, they have to fill out a form

Owen

and say, Oh, sure, that’s another great way of dealing with it. It just there’s still the onus is on the client, and they still have to provide you with the pictures, they have to have permission to use those pictures. They either older or they got permission. And they have to prove that they got permission. Yeah, why she’s gonna have a legal, we need to talk about that. Because I don’t know if you know, but Google Images now bills code in them to say where the photos came from. So

Rob

if you took a Google image@images.google.com and use on the website, there’s code in there saying what website it came from?

Owen

Yes. The other thing is you can do is you can download the image, right click on it go to properties, and you can find a lot more information about an image.

Rob

People aren’t smart enough, if they’re going to break the rules to scrub the data. With the image data, which you can do, there’s programs out there to do it, you just

Owen

Well, fortunately, right now, at least I haven’t heard anything that if you are using an image and you didn’t get permission to use it. Typically, they just ask you to remove it. That’s the end of it. I’ve not heard anybody get sued to death. But the reality is out your content, everything will be wonderful.

Rob

So that own your content. So that brings me to a new discussion. And I think you know how I feel on this one. And we’ve talked about in many, many conversations on you have no opinion. What are you talking? I have not know. Anybody who knows me knows I have an opinion about the world on everything on everything. Yes. But what do you think about people that say, I’ve got a Facebook page, I’ve got Google My places account, I’ve got a Twitter account, but I really don’t need a website. What do you say to them?

Owen

Enjoy your crappy life. They don’t all their content, all those social networks, all their code, they all the content, it’s not yours anymore. You gave it away with this part of the terms of service. All your pictures do not belong to you anymore. People don’t care.

Rob

But that’s the truth. They don’t care until they start sending out Facebook messages saying share the status because I’m not giving Facebook my content.

Owen

Yeah, even when I first got started with the social networks, if anyone think that was one of the first things we talked about was like this is we’re giving all this traffic to the social networks with our content. So rather than do that, if we’re going to do that, let’s own it, have a blog, and then populate the social networks from the blog. Now, jetpacks tried to address that to the most part, then some other plugins, but you could have that stuff automated so that it’s still the same problem. The difference is the content belongs to you because it’s on your blog. That’s where it originated.

Rob

One of the reasons I still even though I do like regular Facebook Lives, as you know, you’ve watched a few and I still post content on my website. Now I I’ve switched kind of do a video format. But I still throw the traffic back to my blog. And it’s one of the reasons I keep the original videos when I throw content back to it. And it’s one of the reasons I use a utility to download the Facebook Live storage set utilities, because if they ever disappear, I’ve still got all that content I can put,

Owen

Yes, right. But you know, that, again, the average person will even save the average person, I include that small to medium business owners, they don’t know, either. It’s like they just, they they are thinking about what the problem is, they just want the problem solved. And they don’t care about the details behind it.

Rob

Until until they get into trouble. So yes, which leads me to my next discussion. Client a has a web designer, he tells web designers firing, which is not uncommon, goes and gets developed for be the client a made a mistake and let the web designer register his domain name and keep it in their account. Web Designer says, you fire me basically go away. And I’m not giving you this domain name. I own it, because I own it. Now I’ve been through that, I’m sure you’ve been through that with oil. And and you’re basically gonna sit and watch the domain name from the date of expiry for 45 days, when it goes through everything and grab the damn thing. And kind of the way I do things is so I don’t two ways. If the client wants to domain on GoDaddy, I actually put in my contract, the client owns the domain name. And what I do is I registered for them in my account when they pay their bill, I transfer that domain name. Yes. And we’re gonna net forms has the same feature. So there’s a you have to register I use often. And they will let you transfer to the clients account seamlessly. You don’t have to do anything. It just does.

Owen

Yeah. So the way Billy host handles that. I used to register the domain names for clients at one time, because I used to finance the basis basically. So if it was due, I paid for it, and then they would pay me. Well, they got killed, obviously. But so what happens now when you buy hosting with the domain, I still manually approve ever order. So fraud doesn’t get me even though I do have fraud protection software. The issue is that, let’s say they bought a domain after they bought hosting. I just purchased it through their own account. So it’s always belongs to them. I don’t want to own your damn domain. I don’t want it. I just don’t want it. So if I do is because I did a favor for you. And when you leave, it leaves to I don’t want it. So because unfortunately with the way the domain name registrars operate and the legal ramifications of their of you have to Bill 60 advance 60 days in advance. And they have to pay 30 days before it’s actually due. Because that’s the way the registrar’s have decided this is the way it’s going to be. I don’t have a choice. So I have to bill in advance. And most of them go well, it’s not due to him. Well, I’m sorry. But that’s still that’s the rule. That’s the way it is. So if you want your website to work, you have to pay the bill 30 days before it’s actually due.

Rob

Yeah, the kind of take two I have on that is you know, we’re talking about two holy shit but Jen ethical web designers and I really, I build right in I already registered domain for client, but I can tell you, if I’m gonna register, I’m knocking on the management fee on top of it to do the work, I’m sorry,

Owen

or an administration fee army.

Rob

So, and most of my clients, I deal with some clients in political space and stuff, they just don’t care. They just want it done. But they also want ownership. And I actually sit them down and say you do own your domain name because I transfer it right away Even if I register. In several cases, I’ve actually got clients where I’ve got access to your domain account now GoDaddy, got some new services I know where they will actually let a client set you up to manage your registration account. You can do that net from sets the same thing.

Owen

So well I could fully automate registration just from it, but fraud is just you just get killed but I’m grateful for the GoDaddy is the host caters of the world. So my because I get more claims from them and I do anywhere else.

Rob

Yeah, it’s it’s funny because the minute everybody I know who’s had problems in the last while and you know, I’m a site ground guy for a long

Owen

time. And I’ve got hold that against you know, I know I know you’ll hold lots against me but not that.

Rob

That’s that’s personal stuff. Yeah.

For siteground I mean, when you talk about the top WordPress hosts are always mentioned in the top echelon. I mean, let’s be fair. The only reason Bluehost, which is an endurance company is is they’re a major sponsor of WordPress workcamps. And so let’s go daddy. And let’s be fair and honest. The problem is make sure it’s hard to it becomes sad ethics from do I take money from you? Or do I not?

Owen

And yeah, it’s, you know, it’s a real crapshoot there because, yeah, they want the PR, they want the advertising, they want that exposure. And then there’s the moral dilemma of what do I do here? Like, how do I, how do I do this and still keep my chin held high without having some moral dilemma being broken?

Rob

I have to tell you, I hate text chat for support. And say, No, I really mean computer guy hates text chat. Yeah. And the two companies I go to for tech support. One is Rogers for text chat on Twitter. Yes, sir. Honestly, siteground chat bots, they, they have not hired the cheapest chat support they could find.

Owen

Now I had, I have to do everything through my support system so that a ticket is assigned a ticket number, because then there’s no chance of anything getting lost. People started sending me content to my phone, and I would just lose my mind. I do to just go with why I can’t do anything with that. I mean, I can’t but it takes so much longer.

Rob

If I agree. By the way, just as a reminder, any of my clients are listening to this, as of two days from now, no open ticket no work. I’ve I’ve actually even implemented a WordPress based ticketing system for my business. Yes. I did it three months ago. And I told my clients, anybody sends me anything individual put up the ticket on your behalf to December 31. Well, guess what, folks? today’s Monday night.

Owen

It’s a it’s interesting how people do the easiest thing, the favor. It’s the first thing that comes to the mind. So when they think of you or they think of me, they think of our personal email address as my own instead, and it’s it’s an actual, really whole support issue. Are it’s a website support issue that really helps design, web design did. They just think of contacting me directly because they know the business. And as things get bigger, that’s going to become a bigger gap, because I’m not going to be the business. Other people are going to be the business. Because I’m in my 60s, at some point, someday, this business has to just hand it off. I agree. Right? Because I’m not gonna live forever. I might, but I want

Rob

and that’s why you’re and that’s why you’re better off using a name like bluehost.com even though you have your personal website, I don’t know. And the same reason I transitioned three years ago to the name stunning digital marketing.com. Yes, because if I ever decide to hand off, get out, succeeds sell. You can sell Billy host call me to sell on grace calm. It’s very hard.

Owen

Yes. It’s just it’s just good business doing that. It just makes good logic. good sense. Even your personal Oh, you know, my own grief calm, which I have not. I don’t think I’ve blogged since 2016.

Rob

Yeah, I was gonna say it’s been a while.

Owen

Yeah, I just, I just haven’t had any anything to say there that matter. That isn’t easier to find it easier to get today. Back when I was doing all the blogging, that information was not widely public.

Rob

And to be fair, I think the only thing I’m using my personal site for which is Robert Cairns, calm these days use pictures from family events for Christmas or an outing I went to or stuff like that. So I can say to people, you’re and I have family members who don’t like Facebook, so it’s go here. There they are.

Owen

They hated Facebook since day one. I never I’ve never liked it. yet. I was huge Twitter guy when Twitter came out, man. 20,000 followers happened really fast. You know this, like, back in the day when you can actually have conversations and build little communities on Twitter now. It’s like a giant funnel of water.

Rob

Yeah, yeah, I’m

Owen

being polite to just

Rob

just customers. Aren’t you remember a friend feed conversation we had with Robert

Rob

And it was one night at like 12 o’clock and this thing went on for hours. And I got that conversation. And you know, it’s funny because Robert and I, we knew each other, but we never had much of a relationship. And now we have this amazing relationship all because of that conversation.

Owen

I actually know his brother better, Alex. Yes. Just down the road for me. It stays here. But

Rob

But the point is he in those days. Now, interestingly enough, you talk about Twitter, do you know Twitter is still the number third most alternative? So if you take the top 10 search sites, which is we know who’s Google number one, YouTube?

Owen

I used to search on Twitter a lot,

Rob

but Twitter is still as far as alternatives. Number one is Duck Duck, go Believe it or not,

Owen

Yeah. And number two is Twitter when you go to alternatives. Yeah.

Rob

I still use Twitter. I use Twitter to find clients.

Owen

Yeah, me too.

Rob

It’s just just a good tool to use.

Owen

I actually I actually use it to find people. And then I send them an email, if I can find the answer, by the way. I see you can do this. And this is how I can help you. And I spell it out and say, here. Yeah,

Rob

I have some regular stuff that gets posted on Twitter. Things that are automated, unfortunately, they’re like cancellations. But I don’t use Twitter, like I used to. I remember living on Twitter, you and I

Owen

at one time. Fred Feed feed was my favorite out of all of them back in the day. That was my favorite one because it It kept your conversation in one nice little tidy package. Like you can just follow a thread. And you know, it’s like a newsreader with threading turned on. It was awesome.

Rob

Yeah. And and I still remember that night was Robert, it was I know, it was quite magical. It was quite a magical night, and it was going on and it just, and he didn’t want to go and we didn’t want to go and yes, you’re both on the west coast. And I’m on the east coast. Yes, you are. Not on the on the coast. But I’m in Toronto. So I’m on that three hour timezone difference. Yeah, yeah. And the only thing I’ve seen close to it, frankly, in Facebook is some family conversations. And we have one that’s been going on over the holidays where somebody opened up a group of 50 family members and right, yeah, thank you posting it. But but but it doesn’t have the same feel. So I am and ironically, Facebook bought friendfeed Yes, it did nothing with that. And Instagram and yes and chat program. I was gonna say many chat, but not many chat text program.

Owen

Okay, I can’t remember the name of it doesn’t matter. But the the sad thing that happened, and I predicted this back when I was studying all the future stuff. But at least social numbers came along. They were like the Wild West. They were fresh, clean. Nobody knew how to use them. Nobody knew what to do with them. And I claimed many years ago that eventually they will become like the telephone. Everybody will know how to use them. And all these social media gurus, what are you gonna sell them? Now they’re still out there pumping social media, and good for them. I’m not proposing that. It’s just that. It’s like the telephone, the TV, we all learn how to use these things eventually. And if you’re going to have to change and diversify, when you’re just when you narrow yourself down to just social media, you better hope and pray that there are some new social networks opening up that you can jump on and learn. Otherwise, you’re going to be teaching Twitter. You know, that was 50 years old.

Rob

Yeah. And one of the things people don’t understand and websites are the same social media is the same is to go after your demographics. So for example, I always say if you’re targeting, say females, and this can sound racist, but it’s not meant to be actual demographic stats between 20 and 35. Don’t go to Facebook and people say excuse me, where don’t go to Instagram? No, not even Snapchat, breast,

Owen

Pinterest, LinkedIn, there’s another one I don’t get

Rob

because what Pinterest sells, if you look at Pinterest, very simply women’s coach recipes, any advance help for women, women’s lingerie, footwear, and your kind of stuff. And it’s and jewelry. And it’s all young women with disposable income.

Owen

Yeah, that’s what my take.

Rob

But I have clients and that, for me it does nothing. But I have clients in that in that realm. So you have to

Owen

Yes, right. So you need to know that stuff. But the reality is, is Marketing is it still, believe it or not, not all that complicated.

Rob

I agree. It’s the mechanics are complicated. And every

Owen

website, every business, every one to be, has the same problem. They need new clients. They all do. So a lot of these fancy and trickery and systems, they’re great. Some of them work short term, but marketing works short term to marketing is like the stock market though. Over time, if you stick to the basic principles, you will win. A lot of people think there’s some secret like, it just makes me crazy. Again, all these become millionaire in six months.

Rob

But one of the things you can do is to think out of the box. So for example, one of the things people say marketing, if you want to send out newsletters, send them out a 5am or 6am your time because they’re at the top of the inbox. Sure, problem is everybody does it. So I send mine out to two in the afternoon when nobody sends him. So sometimes you got to go against the grain to make yourself stand out, you can always go with the grain.

Owen

You know, when I was in broadcasting, I was in radio and television for years. And we used to live and die by the numbers, you know, the ppm numbers, the broadcast bureau measurement, and so every quarter hour mattered. So we were number one between 18 and 24. it you know, 350 on Friday afternoon. And of course, every radio station can claim their number one at some point the day, which is just wonderful. But if you sell your advertising based on those numbers, what the numbers take. So there’s your selling, so you got to be careful.

Rob

So now that we’re kind of into the new year, it’s gonna be a big change in WordPress, we’ve seen Gutenberg, we all, you know, I’m kind of with you, I don’t really care much that it came out. What I didn’t like was timing. Many people have argued with me and said you’re against it or not. Progress is progress, it’s going to happen, you gotta let it happen.

Owen

Yeah. Next, I think 2019 is going to be more of the same. We’re just gonna see, I, I’m not convinced these release cycles can be sustainable, because I’ve tried to keep it every six months or whatever, as these platforms, so these tools get more complicated, the longer they take.

Rob

And I’m not convinced in 2019 we’re not going to have more security issues, I think we’re actually gonna have way more

Owen

now, I don’t think that’s ever gonna stop. I think it’s ramping up, the fact that elections can be manipulated, tells you a lot.

Rob

Um, I do some work, as you know, multiple police in the community in a business perspective, right. And that’s web work. And I can always tell you, if there’s an event, I just watched the server. And I It’s like watching and these are not bots, these are plant attacks, if this. Yes. But whereas you remember a number of years ago to four police officers in Ontario in New Brunswick that were killed? Yes. Not murdered. Okay. Yes. So one of the sites that I give back to the community is a site called sea palm.ca. It’s a site where they do the live stream for the Ontario police memorial in May every year. That site took a 5000 increase security bot attack while the funerals for those four officers. 5,000%.

Owen

I have a couple of kitties. I have a couple of clubs that are politicians in town, one of them’s the mayor. Okay. And Jerry just joined the election. It was incredible to watch the data on that site alone on the mayor’s site, how it just the bandwidth usage and all of the attacks and attempts to break in and like it was just mind boggling going. Why? I don’t understand what people think they’re trying to accomplish by doing that. Like, I don’t understand. I guess it’s because I’m not a criminal mind. I don’t think that way.

Rob

Yeah, they’re they have another ulterior motives. And it’s just and that’s not about it that might be bought so on she attack, but that’s what I call a targeted attack. Right? Yeah.

Owen

Well, there was some targets because I was able to, we have to hit over some IP addresses but and they were, they were just from like 20 minutes down the highway in another community, and that’s where the attacks are coming from. But unfortunately, you know, you got better things in life to do with your time I’m sure I do. Yeah. course, we’re in the business of protecting and security and all of that. And because I run a number of servers, I have to be, I have to be on it. Like, I can’t just let it sit, I gotta be watching and I’ve got layer upon layer, you know, firewall upon, you know, proxy router. Like you have to have multiple, you can’t just have a couple of VLANs, you cross your fingers, everything’s okay.

Rob

And then you have to be forever reading to find out what’s out there. I mean, and, and proof in the pudding. If anybody remembers in the WordPress world, WP GDPR. This year, there was a plugin that I got caught using on two sites, and terrible, and siteground actually stopped the attack at their firewall. And I got infected in the hour, the hack was announced to the time it was stopped. Now, this was not a plugin that was written maliciously, this was not a plugin that didn’t have security updates. This was not a plugin that half the world wasn’t using it was. And then we went through it again with another plugin Two weeks later. And it was like, and the latest one has been easy updates manager which is an open source, again, another plugin that was written with the best of intent and somebody found a hole. And everybody’s saying it’s bad code. It’s not always bad code code. It’s the minute you become 20 30% of market, you become the target. Well, interestingly

Owen

enough, there are enough sniffers out there that as soon as a WordPress install happens, it knows about it. Yeah, I know who you’re with who you’re hosting with. As soon as there is a WordPress install, it knows about it. So you don’t have a chance. So I have to be prepared on my backhand when I’m installing have to have a way to and, again, that the whole login dot php WP has elegant. PHP is just, it’s like, look at me, I’m over here.

Rob

Yeah. And not only that, the number one thing that 50% of people do WordPress install still do is a code. It’s the admin account. They call it admin. And it doesn’t matter that the password is complex. The minute that’s done, the site is hacked, and the virus isn’t in there. And there you go.

Owen

Like it’s, there are some things as we know, we have a protocol of things, a list of things that we do before we even get to the point of locking in. Yes, that’s funny.

Rob

I think security is going to be a problem. I think page builders aren’t just going to keep growing I mean choose your favorite one I as you know and I refuse to get into this Coke and Pepsi fight you know I hate about it but I don’t if you like Beaver Builder use it. I like to use like Elementor use it.

Owen

They’re all they all use the tool that you are comfortable with want

Rob

to get a Mac and an iPhone feel free. I won’t but feel free.

Owen

Yeah, I haven’t joined the cult.

Rob

But the point the point is, I just don’t get into those fights. I think people and it doesn’t matter are looking for alternatives for both video editing and picture editing. A lot entrepreneurs are fed up with Photoshop because there’s a cost right now.

Owen

A lot of the good all the good tools cost a lot.

Rob

Yeah. Mind you in the video side. I made the switch three years ago to chorale Visual Studio.

Owen

Only an old school.

Rob

Oh, no crap Visual Studios, new school. The new version does split screens, pans and all kinds of stuff. Nice. And it’s only 9999.

Owen

I have to sniff that one out.

Rob

Yeah, it’s it’s the upgrade is, I think for the upgrade from version 10 to the latest one I paid 30 bucks.

Owen

Right. And I still use GIMP over Adobe,

Rob

I have CS two, so I quit ever.

Owen

I don’t do a lot of video work. So but I’ll have to

Rob

check that one out. Premier is gone. And even on the on the Mac site. Final Cut just taken a dive. The pros are fed up with it. Well, so I mean, there’s tools like that. I know I was looking at discussion yesterday where people are looking for Photoshop alternatives. I mean, for social media stuff a lot of people are going to Canva a lot of people on the picture. Yep. Pixar does some cool things like you can take a video and then drop a picture into the video and freezer. Thanks, guys. Yeah, so I mean there’s some other tools out there but the big thing is mainstream business doesn’t like small tools.

Owen

Well, no, that’s true. But you know, like my business, most of my time is on the hosting side. But I do carry. I carry quite a few projects of web site development. So I have the tools that I want that I use. And some of them are freezed. Most of them are not. But you know, the belly house Web Designs had last year was a good year, a lot of people that know who I am. That’s kind of what I do. I prefer to be working mostly on the servers and the hosting. But if websites calm and someone needs help, I’m there.

Rob

Whereas I’ve kind of transitioned a little bit I’m doing probably, except for the security side, I’m probably doing more on the marketing side than in my actual design from scratch.

Owen

And but you know, marketing. Marketing now includes What?

Rob

Yeah, it does no question. But I don’t do as much web design from scratch. Right. So

Owen

I get that. But your marketing costs to include the website and your email campaign. I agree. All those things are new to marketing, but their systems now that you can do.

Rob

Oh, that leads me to one last discussion. And I think you and I differ a little bit on this one I prefer, which would be nothing new. I would prefer, firstly, my clients not host their email on my email server. And you know what my preferred solution is?

Owen

Yes,

Rob

I know. And I don’t care if you use the G Suite solution or the or the Microsoft solution. My problem is, I’m not a big fan of all my eggs in one basket.

Owen

Well, there is that. The there’s also the school of thought that first of all places one place to manage. All my emails are not on the same server as the website, I have separate server for

Rob

a shared hosting environment, if that’s the route the client goes, that’s what you get.

Owen

Well, yes. And that’s the reality. But you know, you’re either using outlook.com G Suite, and it’s all DNS anyway. So it’s just a matter of pointing to a different tool. It doesn’t matter, the email starts to flow through your domain name.

Rob

No, no question. I actually do it because I actually prefer to spam filters on Google than I do. In a cPanel environment. That’s what they had.

Owen

They invested a ton of r&d to figure that stuff out.

Rob

except they’re sometimes they’re overzealous, but that’s,

Owen

you know, that’s what they still have. I was just like everybody else, although I’ve been with this data center material. Now for six years. I’ve never had my servers go down.

Rob

Yeah, I remember when you did to switch, actually. So

Owen

yes, when I left the Hostgator circle,

Rob

oh, yeah, you were you were done. You’re You’re done. At the same time, I

Owen

lost clients, like you have no idea of all my large clients went away because the email didn’t work. Because their data networks we’re down. Like, it’s just like, I had nothing I could do, like, absolutely. But sit here and suck my thumb and feel sorry for myself. I gotta find something better. So I did.

Rob

Yeah. And there are some good Canadian, like, there are a couple good Canadian outfits. It’s just you have to find them. By the way, anybody who’s looking at net firms and think they’re Canadian, they’re also part of the Hostgator circle. Right? So you know, you kinda

Owen

gotta.ca.ca does not mean they are Canadian. Canadian.

Rob

It means you have a Canadian address, which entitles you too? Yeah,

Owen

I use a company called GT car. dotnet. And they are fabulous. Support is amazing. I can’t speak more highly of them. It’s been the best I’ve been worth. In all the years. I’ve been doing tech. They’re the best right now.

Rob

Yeah. And and the problem with hosting, it’s like everything else who’s number one now might not be number one in six months. But personally, you know, I hate to say it, I know people get locked up on the discussion between WordPress managed hosting and non WordPress managed hosting, we hear those terms. Frankly, they don’t matter. As far as I know, it doesn’t say it’s a sales gig. And WordPress managed hosting at 25%. Because you can.

Owen

Yeah, it’s just perception. If if the The truth is you have the same problems with a self hosted as opposed to managed the same security problems, the same plugin problems, you got all the same problems. It does make it sound like that. They’re going to look after it for you and in some cases, they probably do it. Most cases they don’t.

Rob

Anyway on thanks for the chat Happy New Year, stay out of trouble, you know,

Owen

yeah, all the all the regular things that we’re going to be hosting some people here for New Year’s Eve, we haven’t done that for a few years just aren’t turning to host. Because we have a group of people that we get together with every season. And of course, Christmas was really nice and quiet. So it was wonderful, although I bought this huge turkey thinking the family was coming, or going to be in Turkey for a while.