Episode 145 – Talking Woo with BobWP

Show Notes

Episode 145 Talking the Woo With BobWp


From the center of the universe, Toronto, Ontario, Canada. This is the SDM show with your host Rob Cairns. The SDM show focuses on business life productivity, digital marketing, WordPress and more. Sit back, relax, grab your favorite drink and enjoy the show. Here is Rob.



Everybody. Rob Cairns. Here, I’m the founder, CEO and Chief Creative of amazing ideas at Stunning Digital Marketing. In today’s edition of the SDM show, I’m really honored to sit down with my good friend Bob Dunn, Bob WP. Bob is the producer of the Do The Woo podcast and I thought I’d get Bob on again. So we could sit down and talk about WooCommerce trends in the WordPress space. So grab your favorite drink, sit back, relax, and enjoy the podcast as Bob and I do the work.



Hey, everybody, Rob Cairns, here today, I’m here and we’re going to talk a little bit of WooCommerce with my good friend Bob Dunn, Bob WP. How are you today?



I’m doing great. I’m I’m excited to be back here, Robert.



Yeah, it’s great. It’s always great to have you back. we’ve, we’ve said I think we’ve known each other now going on 1214 years. But back in the days that the headway days where we I think we first met them, we’ve sort of stayed in touch and it’s always a treat to have you. Um, what before we get to the podcast, most people know you as Bob gabp been in this space a long time? What projects are you working on these days? Anything interesting.



You know, it’s, um, you know, I’m about almost a year now. And to Do The Woo, that I owe. So that’s really my focus now. About, obviously WooCommerce for those that don’t know what woo means. But yeah, I do a podcast on there, I do some news I do. It’s a lot of round the builder community. So I’m just kind of highlighting on that, you know, trying to bring people up that are in the space that can, yeah, just for people recognize all the cool stuff that’s going on. So that’s been my focus and been doing a lot of iterations of that. And right now, I’m in the middle of a rebrand and a redesign to the site of an agency doing it. So it’s all hands off for me, which is really nice. So I’m looking forward to that launch. I’m tentatively gonna say, early October, but you know how those things go. But we’ll, you know, we won’t do a set date. But I’m looking forward to that. So I’m kind of deep into then doing a little work on the content, just getting things all nice and tidy.



all too well, dates like that tend to slide a little bit and and you know, the worst part about it is people like us who have been in a web game you in past, and we kind of work at things and say, really, do we want to? Do we really want to do this, and this is why our own sites always sit on the backburner, and we get to it right, Bob?



Yeah, exactly. And that’s why this time, it’s so nice. They contact me, Oh, you want to look at this piece? This part? What about this? And I’m like, Oh, this is so much easier. You know. So



yeah, so let’s, let’s jump on in we want to talk WooCommerce do the world what a journey it’s been you. You’ve been doing it for a year now. You’ve kind of I would say you’re trying to get your co hosts to do a little more, right? You’re getting them on morning, you’re sitting back and listening to all the good stuff. One thing I will say is you’re so lucky, you’ve got a bunch of great co hosts. And they’re all they all brings different stuff to the table and different areas of expertise. And they’re all a treat to listen to. So that’s always a pleasure.



No, thank you and that Yeah, I’ve I’ve been extremely lucky with who I’ve chosen because they’ve really connected well with each other and they just they make they make the guests feel comfortable. And guests enjoy the show. So that’s, that’s a really big piece of it. So yeah, I’m, I’m blessed when it comes to that that group of volunteers.



Yeah, they’re, they’re amazing. So let’s jump into what we want to talk about today. And that’s to WooCommerce in general. So you get to a bit of an interesting discussion. WooCommerce doesn’t really have a competitor in the WordPress space. Right now, there’s competitors outside the WordPress space like Shopify, which would know but in the WordPress space, there isn’t really a competitor. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? What’s your take on that? You know, it’s



we all you know, you and I have been in business for a long time. So we know Yeah, competition is good. And when it’s there, it’s good. It’s healthy and when it’s done Right. But, you know, I don’t really have feelings one way or another. It’s like, if somebody comes along and can think of something that can grab some of the market and it’s appealing to people. It’s like all I’m all Ford, I think it’s a tough row, I’ve talked to a couple in the past that tried to enter the space. And some of them were, you know, more just, you know, they have their platforms, and they want you to integrate it into their WordPress site, they built integrations. And I know from talking with them, they’ve had challenges entering the space, it’s just been a tough, bro, you know, they have their specialty and their audience and their customers. But taking a slice of that pie has been more challenging for them. And, you know, I can’t say why. Because I’m not in that, you know, in that position, but at the same time, yeah, I think it’s, it’s, it’s not a question of whether it’s good or bad, it’s a question of who can do it. And who can find that sweet spot, because, you know, we’re definitely not going to bail. Unless there’s something that is, you know, maybe you consider it simpler, or easier to onboard, or it’s more specific to your kind of product or the size of your store. So, I don’t think there’s ever that barrier. I think, at this point for as long for as long as WooCommerce has been around what they build up in that space. It’s just it says, it’s a tough challenge for somebody and I’m not, you know, I’m not saying nobody will ever, you know, I’d say never, never say never. Yeah, but you know, it’s, it’ll be interesting to see if something slides in there. Because, and you never know what’s gonna happen with WooCommerce. I mean, the directions they’ll take over the years. And you know, if that will open up another opportunity for somebody down the road. So long, long answer to a very short question. I don’t think it’s necessarily in the scheme of things, you think, Oh, it’s not good. There’s not competition, but there must be a reason there’s not competition, and somebody’s got to figure out that reason and get their foot in the door, if they want to, you know, take any bit of a piece of the pie and you know, even maybe from some of the smaller other ones that are not so much in direct competition, like ed ed and stuff, but, you know, there’s, maybe that’s it, maybe it’s that niche, kind of e commerce type thing versus just this robust, we sell everything.



Yeah, it’s so true. And I think I think Wu’s biggest competition is probably Shopify, which is outside the space. And I know from my client base, people either go to woo, or go to Shopify. And they have different reasons for going different ways. Which leads me into my next question, which is always a controversy in the WordPress space. So I kind of want to touch on it. I like controversy. Oh, yeah. We have people who believe you shouldn’t run an LMS. Inside WordPress, because it’s too resource heavy. We have people believe you shouldn’t run marketing automation. In within WordPress, because it’s resource heavy. So you know, where this conversation is going? Is Why should we run Woo, inside WordPress? Because isn’t that resource? Every thought? Yeah,



you know, I






and it’s interesting, because a lot of the things I take in from WooCommerce, I’m not building sites with WooCommerce. I’m not working directly with clients, I just talked to a lot of people that are doing it. So I, I asked Moses, I hear what they’re saying. And I think from especially the larger agencies that are looking at these huge, humongous stores, it always comes back to if you do it, right, it’s not going to be resource heavy, you got to know what you’re doing. And that’s like any technology now, that doesn’t help the small person that wants to do something fairly large, because they may not understand that piece of it. So there’s, you know, I mean, some of the agencies I’ve talked to have built incredibly huge sites. And yeah, it’s, it’s not the fact that you shouldn’t do it. But you got to do it. Right. So that doesn’t really help maybe this small shop owner, they may still be reluctant. They may think it’s resource heavy. And you know, I can’t say one way or another on that. But I think there’s, there’s You and I both know, there’s a lot of variables, there’s a hosting, there’s other things that throw into the mix, that you got to make sure you have in place so yeah, it can be and you can make it resource heavy by putting too much stuff on it. You know, just like Anything WordPress, I mean WordPress can be your site can become very resource heavy if you do it wrong. So,



yeah, I would agree with that. I mean, I, you know, I think one of the things that I think people miss out on is they go get awful hosting, and we’ve all been down that road, we’ve all made that mistake. And then they say, well, whoops, not running while Well, if you get a hosting plan that has no resources for the sizes, the size of the site you want, how are you supposed to make it run? Which leads me into another question. we’re now seeing this big pop up of managed WooCommerce hosting, not just WordPress hosting, how’s your feeling on that? Have you played with any of those are? You know, I



have I know enough of them? I’ve, you know, I’ve not actually my site has WooCommerce on it, but I sell so little, so I can’t really be a fair judge of Yes, this really speeded up my site because of that fact. But I think it’s I think it’s cool. I think it’s a good way for I mean, these hosting companies, they’re, they’re on the ball, they know what the heck they’re doing. I mean, no matter what people are just sighs about, you know, different moves they make or whatever. But, yeah, it’s a very, it’s an animal in itself. So why not build a platform hosting platform around to around that particular, the needs of WooCommerce to make it the most effective, and you know, some of them are constantly adding in a lot of them it is it’s about performance. They’re not always just saying, you know, we’re just making them four, you can do all this cool look and stuff on it. It’s really boils down to and the the serious posts that are putting this together are looking at how do we always make sure that uptime, performance, speed, all those things are working, and that’s, that’s there. And then if you don’t have somebody in your, on your team, so to say doing that, then you can be screwed, you know, so there’s that option, okay, I have a little blog here, I can go have this host, I have, you know, I’m selling 9000 products, I can now go that to them and feel more rest assured that they know what I’m dealing with, versus the person that has a little blog.



Yeah, I would agree a lot of it is resources based on the hosting and what you need. And there’s a time to go to either a virtual server or a dedicated server, depending on the size of your site. And I think people need to realize that the cost of having a big site is paying for premium hosting and not the cheap $3 a month hosting we all see advertised to get in the door. I think people need to, honestly, when it comes to hosting, wake up and realize your host is your partner in your business, not just the service you buy. And that’s kind of been my take on it for years.



Yeah, yeah. And I was going to once do a video, and I had this wild idea in my mind that I was gonna do a video going around shopping for a physical store, just like I would a online store. And I was going to be standing outside this old torn down building that has no windows in it and everything and saying, Hmm, maybe I can get this cheap. You know, I it’s not gonna cost me as much as that building in the middle of downtown. And so you know, yeah, is that? Yeah, you gotta you gotta be kind of you can pay get what you pay for.



Yep. Now, let’s jump on to Whoo, wasn’t there recently, or recently a major security update for Whoo, in the last couple releases? And,



you know, there was it was like, What about? Oh, maybe about him? That’s about a month ago. Yeah. And, you know, it’s, again, it’s one of those I don’t know, maybe I’m not, maybe I’m too even killed. Now. Of course, I don’t have a huge store. So I’m not stressed about it. But I know that they did do a quick, quick fix to it. They really moved on at quickly, which was, you know, I’m and this isn’t, you know, being biased or anything. Uh, you know, I think that one was handled pretty efficiently. You know, and just seeing the documentation. They were putting out course, there were some people that were, you know, totally freaking out. I blame them. But yeah, security is is a thing that I just I look at sometimes I think, oh, man, you know, I’m so glad all I have to worry about is my site.



Yeah, I managed over 100 sites from a security perspective. And, you know, when you see something like I themes yesterday, it released their security report at the time of this recording and they and there was 56, new security vulnerabilities and themes and plugins, not just Whoo, no, I think there was a couple of ones on the list of all right, and this was in a one week period and they used to produce this Every two weeks, and it’s now gotten so bad, they’re doing it weekly, because the reality of it all is, you know, as we go through this pandemic time, we’re all at home working, but sort of the hackers and actors are born.



They don’t you know, they’re not going out and eating anymore or doing, you know, strolling in the park, they’re like, kind of stuck in my house, why don’t I just do a little bit more work?



Yeah, I and I, and I, truthfully, you know, and I, I’ve been beating this dead to a drum in the last while, a little selfishly, but a little, you know, proactively to is, I think you need to have somebody who knows security in your corner, because if you don’t, it’s a bit of a problem. Even more so with an e commerce site. Like, I just don’t think he could do it on your own anymore.



Yeah, I remember back several years ago, just on my blog, about the VP, I had a hack of some sort, you know, and I can’t remember a bunch of messages came up and all this stuff. And I just looked at it. And, you know, I could have went, I mean, you can search right away, you can go on Google, what happens when it says this or so. And I think I called contacted securi, or somebody I contacted and said, You need to deal with it. I it was like it was it was like a two minute and I’m maybe the rare case, too. But I was Yeah, it was like I don’t know what to do. I don’t even know where to start. And I don’t want to deal with it. So yeah, if something like that happen, so that I’m gonna call somebody that knows what the heck they’re doing.



I would so this past week, last week, I was resizing pictures for a client for a WooCommerce store. And I was resizing 249 pictures. I won’t mention the client to save him. But his graphics guy gave me pictures and graphics guys that aren’t good with web don’t understand that picture sizes have to be the same. That’s, that’s probably one of the bigger sites I’ve dealt with. I’ve got a couple loose stores that around 300 What’s the biggest you’ve seen out there? runs really right? Oh, man,



you know, I seems like I can’t remember there was somebody that was on a show talk. And it was in the 10s of 1000s. You know, it might have been in the upper like you almost six digit. And sometimes when I hear that, it just it boggles my mind. You know, one way or another how they, as a developer, make it all work well, for the client. And just, there’s there’s so many parts of that, that just blow my mind. But yeah, I’ve heard. I’ve heard and I’ve heard, you know, once I have above, you know, in the six figures, and yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s not, it’s more common than I think sometimes I’ll see a lot of people you know, coming in, oh, I haven’t 70 80,000 products. I’m like, Whoa, okay, this is like, and they talk like it’s just Oh, every day. Yeah. You know?



Yeah. Yeah, that’s that’s pretty large site. So let’s jump in. I think one of the biggest problems, or biggest issues with woo isn’t woo itself. It’s how sites are developed. And I think the big problem is the checkout process. And you kinda know where I’m going with that if, if anybody’s ever shopped on Amazon, the checkout process is really easy. It’s, it’s Bang, bang, you’re done. And I think we’ll need to or developers need to move more to a one step checkout process to every Fox on the truck. You know, right now,



it’s like, I love this word. I think Kerry deals use it once somewhere. She’s in the WordPress space for those that don’t know her. But it’s there’s a plethora of checkouts coming out now plugins. I mean, there is it is the thing right now, it’s I’ve talked to several of them, you know, a lot of them are the one click checkouts. Yeah, it’s it’s a big, huge topic right now. And I just talked with somebody from iconic WP and they’re doing it, they’re going to be releasing a checkout a new checkout plugin, for easier checkout. And so I hear that a lot. And that’s, yeah, it’s a constant thing. And yeah, it’s obviously needed. And people are doing it left and right. And it’s been you know, it’s been happening for a while, but it seems like there’s over the last maybe half a year or six months or a year, there’s been a lot of them popping on the scene. So it’s obviously a need, and that’s what’s cool about it. I mean, you know, WooCommerce does his thing. It’s got plenty baked into it. But you know, these people are coming up with this other stuff that, you know, hopefully will help merchants, you know, store owners, even developers, you know, make the client sites faster. So yeah, I I definitely see it happening and it’s it’s I think it was it We knew it was coming that, you know, people would jump on the bandwagon, find some ways to solve that solution or solve that problem, I guess I should say.



Yeah, and payment processing isn’t really a problem like with will, because we’ll interfaces with PayPal will interface with stripe, believe it or not, we’ll even interfaces with square, there is a square plug. For those who don’t know, I’ve used it, it’s easy to set up from a developer standpoint. I have a client who’s an insurance Association, and they do all the renewals sure square, that’s what they asked for. And we use the square a plugin now the wounded to do that. It’s easy. It’s a no brainer. I mean, and so I don’t think payment processing is the issue with Whoo, isn’t it? Like No, no, then they started their own, you know, the Boo payments, WooCommerce payments built on stripe, and I switch to that. And it actually was, I mean, I was amazed at the onboarding part, it was the easiest thing. I’ve set up payments on my site for 10 years, you know, different things. And it was the easiest onboarding quick, was done. It was like, Whoa, that was almost too quick and too scary. Is



it gonna work? So? Yeah, they’re even entering the space with that, which is? Yeah, it’s just, it’s just another option, you know. So I have moved payments and PayPal on my site, because of the two that typically people and so it’s basically kind of like stripe and PayPal



now. And then some time ago in with Wu, there used to be an all in one developers bundle that developers could purchase. And they started did away with that in the last year. Do you have any thoughts on where if that is hindered development, if it’s helped development, if it’s given people more options? Like, you know,



I think there’s when they do things like that, and we’ve had a couple people on the podcast, talking about the marketplace that actually run the marketplace on WooCommerce. I think it’s always a bump in the road, when you make any changes to any kind of, you know, product subscriptions and stuff like that. I don’t think it really hindered. You know, it’s really easy to buy a bunch of stuff that maybe you don’t need, whoo. I mean, you know, and maybe, maybe that’s the case, maybe it’s maybe developers or I don’t know, I haven’t really heard a lot of feedback, but I’m kind of guessing developers store owners. Both sides, whoever are looking at Okay, yeah, bundles are great, but you know, often do bundles. Really, can you find that perfect bundle is a tough and I think that’s on the marketing side, you know, if I have these six, plugins, what if I only need three of them? Well, is it worth getting the six? Because maybe it’s a better deal? But you know, do I really need those other three? Are they just, you know, there’s a lot of Yeah, but those are kind of interesting to put together? Because who can really, I mean, especially woo is so god, there’s so many variables, what you need little different pieces and stuff, which isn’t, you know, another thing too, which, you know, can be good or bad.



Yeah, and I would agree, I know from my standpoint, into buying plugins, or paying for developers versions, I prefer to do one offs and just get what I need. Because I find I don’t like getting in that model where I’m buying six, because I might use the fourth one, but then I don’t and it cost me more money. And so I you know, but it’s kind of the cable TV subscription model, right? You buy 20 channels, and you watch five of them. But if you try and buy those five on their own, they cost you more than the 20. Right, Bob? Right, right.



Or they package something on Amazon. Oh, this product. Oh, this probably comes with this little extra thing. That’s kind of cool. And you get it and you think, what in the world am I going to do with this and ends up in a drawer some and you think oh, yeah, right, that extra buck?



Yeah, I’ll give you an example of that. My my mom had me order her a flagpole. For the cottage. We have a we have a family crest on a family flag that we had done. So and what comes with the FIFO. And this is shipped from Amazon that ca and this isn’t meant to be derogatory and American flag in the bundle than the box and like, what is that going to do some Yeah, really? Geez. Man. And we’ll go to one of our American family. But that’s just another example. Yeah.



And yeah, that’s kind of a bizarre assumption, huh? Yeah. Wow. I’m gonna use it for a dust cover for my computer screen. I’m sorry. That’s terrible the same day, you know? Yeah, I know. You got your practical.



Yeah. So let’s go on to acquisitions back in was it November, December that woo bought mail poet and we all know about that acquisition and it was There was big concern at the time in the male poet community, I should say I’m a mailpoet. user, I’ve been for a long time. And the reason why it was concerned in the mailpoet community was at the time they were running IDEO, on App Sumo and Ltd. So people were worried with automatic the parent company to will honor that deal or not to give automaticall audit credit, they have honored it, and they’ve maintained you’re gonna honor it. So that’s not an issue. What do you think about that acquisition, purchasing? mailpoet? You know, I



had somebody on it was interesting, because I had somebody on the podcast, actually one of the team members, she was in the marketing, and, you know, the acquisition acquisitions. Overall, I yeah, I guess, you know, it is strange, because it nothing Well, nothing really surprises me, I think there’s always everybody’s gonna have a little concern, especially if you have some, you know, skin in the game, you’re using the product, and you’re wondering what’s going to happen. And that particular one, I think, is a real smart move on WooCommerce. I mean, yeah, as far as that’s an ideal thing, and how they end up using that along the way or down the road, and how, you know, obviously mailboat, but I thought it was actually more interesting to hear from her as an employee, her experiences, because, you know, even she was very blunt to say that for the team, you know, it’s scary, when you’re suddenly told is going to happen. And that’s another whole side of the thing is saving the customer side of things. But, um, you know, I don’t really feel any differently about that one than I do any other one that’s happened, the dozens of them that have happened lately, and I look at aquas, I look at all of them as WooCommerce, WooCommerce, WordPress, WooCommerce, whatever you say, hey, it’s finally maturing. We’re entering the world of normal business, you know, I mean, where people build wonderful products, and you were able to sell them because they’re incredible value to somebody else, which is like, I’m sorry, no, it’s for me, it’s like does so, you know, I think there’s been a couple that have affected me directly. And I think for a moment, oh, you know, is something going to change? And I’ll, I won’t jump on the, you know, jumped the gun and assume something well, so I’ll, I’ll research it and listen to them. And, and yeah, maybe something. I mean, Yost just did it. And I’ve been using Yoast for 10 years. And that was, you know, that’s another word and everybody, you know, and I’m like, Okay, well, you know, I’ll just keep using Yoast and maybe someday, I may not use Yoast for one reason or another and life will go on. No. Yeah,



I think I think Yoast is, is a, what do you call it? For me? It’s become a don’t go to issue because of who bought them? To be honest with it? Yeah. I don’t think it’s, it’s sad at all. Um, yeah. So there’s, there’s that, what do you see coming down in the WooCommerce space in the next while that’s,



oh, boy, you know, I asked this a lot. Let’s Yes. Because, you know, for me, personally, I never know, I’m like, you know, I’m, I gotten along for the ride. And I’m trying to think of what some guests have said. I think they’re just, you know, they’re just seeing more. Well, the growth obviously, during COVID, there was growth, so we’re seeing more people get online, whether they’re sticking with it. That’s another question. That I know that some have mentioned, VR and AR with WooCommerce, you know, that they’ve, they see potential there. And how that works in I’m not exactly sure. But my first some really cool things that are being done space. We talked about Checkout, which is, you know, huge. Yeah, I you know, I don’t know, I think it’s just it’s, it’s an ever evolving space, ecommerce. And, you know, I, I, even when people ask me, What do you see happening with WordPress, you know, two years from now, and I’m like, Whoa, you know, I can’t even think of what’s gonna happen with WordPress two weeks from now, you know, so it’s, um, yeah, I I don’t know if anybody really I mean, we can make predictions and assumptions and stuff. But it’s just it’s obviously, I think the biggest thing and the checkout is a prime example of it is making everything easier and smoother for the customer. I mean, that’s what’s going to be constantly as we have more and more people are online now, it’s just going to be more and more important to make that whole experience as smooth and easy as possible to make people spend money. And I think everything revolves around that and always has



no I would agree with I think the maturity in the space is going to keep growing. I think there’s a lot going on. I think it’s the reality that WordPress as a whole, not just lose over 40% of the market right now. The The space is maturing, I think it’s going to get rough for the small time developer who wants to create that one niche plugin I personally do with all the consolidation going on at the plugin space. I think that’s the biggest issue at this point. When you say,



yeah, oh, yeah. And it’s, you know, for the builders, developers and stuff it’s going to be Yeah, it is. It’s finding, I mean, a lot of people jumped on the bandwagon in the last 1216 months to start developing WooCommerce sites. Because, yeah, well, it was kind of like a no brainer, everybody wants him. So why don’t I start doing them? But it is, it is finding that market. I mean, that’s a challenge. And I talked to these, I get contacted daily by new people that I mean, new, new products coming out plugins and stuff. And these poor developers are just saying, How do I get this out there, and I’m like, I wish I had a magic bullet for them to you know, I could say my mind do this, and you’d magically just become success, but it’s, it’s a unique community. And we were talking about it before the show how this community kind of works in the deeper parts of the community, for those that are involved in that. And there is a lot of lot to be said, to get to really know these people and start building that trust. And I think that will go, you know, that can make or break a lot and a lot of guests I’ve had on that are builders, and as they get into this space, and and they’re making recommendations to others, is, you know, well, first of all, it’s always a standard, you know, find a need, we find the need make a solution, which is pretty much you know, that that’s almost a given. But it’s also getting to know the community and starting to build that trust and getting know people and and that can that can go a bit longer ways as far as you know, people starting to recognize your product more or your services if you’re doing sites. So it’s Yeah, it’s it’s not right now. There’s I had somebody on that was Brad Morrison from go WP and he said that, right? Currently, it’s really tough to get good developers for WooCommerce. And he said he doesn’t see that changing anytime soon. You know, there’s plenty of people that will say they will do WooCommerce. But to really find good, solid developers has been a challenge.



So true. Google woo is one of my favorite podcasts, you know that? He does say, not just saying that, because you’re on. always enjoy learning from the guests or learning from you, or learning from the people in your community. Where can people find that podcast? If they’re interested?



Yeah, just go to do the boot.io. Search it you’ll find it on all the good platforms, you know, Apple podcasts, all the normal pod platforms. So yeah, you can search it do the whoo there or just google it go do do the whoo.io directly. And you know, and if you go Google Bob WP or end up under the booth some some way or another as well, that’s a little easier to remember. But I think people kind of tend to think of do the Whoo, and remember that because it just sounds very musical.



Yeah. Thanks, Bob. Thanks for joining me Have a great day. Thank you for having me on. Rob. I’ve got a very special thank you to my good friend Bob Dunn Bob WP for joining me on this edition of the SDM show. Make sure you check out Bob’s amazing podcast Do The Woo to learn all about WooCommerce and more. Thanks for listening to the SDM Show. The show is the production of stunning digital marketing and all rights reserved. Rob can be reached by email at VIP at stunningdigitalmarketing.com on twitter at Rob Cairns on his website stunningdigitalmarketing.com and on his website there’s links to all his social media platforms. This show is dedicated to my late father Bruce Cairns. Dad, I love you very much. Keep your feet on the ground and keep reaching for the stars make your business succeed.

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