Episode 222: Talking the Atarim Web Agency Summit

Show Summary

Rob Cairns sits down with Andrew Palmer and talks about the Atraim Web Agency Summit.

Show Highlights:

  1. Andrew’s background.
  2. Why the Summit?
  3. We talked about some of the amazing speakers.
  4. How your agency can grow from the summit.
  5. The amazing WordPress community.

Show Notes

Hey everybody, Rob Cairns here and today I have the special guest Andrew Palmer and we’re going to talk about the Atarim web agency summit.

How are you today, Andrew?

I’m very good Rob and thanks for having me on your show.

I’m very grateful I’ve just finished on the golf course, so I’m a little bit golf weary, so if I mumble a bit just give me a shout.

Yeah, and you’re just for interest sake.

Well, you mentioned golf.

Your Twitter name is Arnie Palmer isn’t not in honor the legendary Arnold Palmer.

It is kind of in honor of of that, but because my name is Amy Palmer.

My fellow Members at my Golf Club just call me Arnie.

They always have called me Arnie, so it seemed quite obvious that my Twitter name would be at Arnie Parlor and it wasn’t taken.

I mean, I was quite surprised it wasn’t taken, but now the king is dead.

Long live the king.

Yes, so true.

Uhm, we were talking a little bit before we went to record about some of the things you’re working on and some of the really cool things outside it is something you’re working on.

Do you want to share with the listeners your WordPress origin story and how you got into WordPress and how that came about?

Well, I got involved in WordPress because Joomla let me.

And you don’t know whether you remember a few years ago. Joomla, one point, whatever it was, managed to get hacked and I had about 100 sites on Joomla and.

It nearly bankrupted me and I thought I’m not going to go through that again.

And a very good friend of mine, Mark Kochmann, who I haven’t seen for a while, but he’s a very, very good friend and he was a client.

Said you really must get into WordPress, so I I tore my hair out for a while because I found Joomla very intuitive at the time.

And converted all the websites or rebuilt them in WordPress, but I drove him mad about. I suppose it was about 10-12 years ago, maybe just three years after WordPress had been launched.

I suppose three or four, and I’ve never looked back and I’m forever grateful to him for pointing me in the in the.

WordPress direction.

And then I just never really looked back.

I import building WordPress website.

Has got easier and easier.

You know we have Gutenberg with cadence blocks and cadence.

Theme is great and you know even Astra do some great Gutenberg layout so you know we’ve always got a starting platform and with the page builders I’m adivi guy as as most people know you know I love Davey.

It’s got a fantastic offer of.

You know, lifetime, and now you know we’ve grown our business to 500 websites that we host and we look after about.

200 websites on white label so you know, that’s that’s my origin story. It’s quite. It’s quite normal. We I just got into WordPress, managed to monetize it, which is what I’m all about. I think if you’re in business.

You shouldn’t deny that you’re in business to make a profit, and that’s what we do.

We we kind of try and make a profit and then give products and try and give back to the Community whenever we can.

Yeah, and and and the community.

It’s Monday.

WordPress has a really.

But I consider strong and vibrant community, UM, that generally as a whole.

I mean we have some issues, but I think it’s generally pretty supportive.

Oh, it’s very supportive.

I mean, you know if you join any slack channel or Facebook group generally.

And and, you know, ask that stupid question of what you know.

How do I set the index page in WordPress?

Most people will react nicely and say, well, you just go here and do that and.

From a particular business perspective, you know the Facebook groups are really popular, focused.

You know, they focus on the business of your.

Of running your WordPress business, which is which is great and the WordPress hosting group obviously that we’re members of and and I know that you set up a LinkedIn WordPress group as well, which is growing and well moderated.

So whatever community you’re in or whatever you’re doing within WordPress, you will find.

Thank you.

Like minded people which I like.

I mean the Twitter is generally filled with people you know, devs and freelancers.

Like all of us, you know we could do without clients, frankly, but you know most of my clients are very affable and they even invite me to play golf on a Wednesday, which is great.

So yeah, it’s a great community.

Clients are getting more and more aware of the benefits of word press as well rather than proprietary systems like.

Fix or square space and that’s why we remain in work.

You know, because people are seeing the benefits of.

The enterprise word press, which is where it’s at, isn’t it?

That’s where that’s.

Yeah, I I think Enterprise WordPress is actually the future if we want to expand the market share.

What that’s what we do.

I was having a discussion with Chris Wegmann over at WP engine earlier last week and Chris and I were talking exactly about this.

The whole enterprise connotation and I I truly.

I think that’s where the growth is.

I do and I think that’s why we’ve got the hosting companies buying up plugins and buying up.

You know, things like learndash and other.

Names in the in the plug in business because they know that they need.

They have to offer an all-in-one service to enterprise customers and say right?

OK, you know you’ve got even if you want internal training, look at that.

We’ve got learndash womb and we can install that automatically for you, and we can tell you which tier to have and.

We can also help you set it up.

You know there there’s there’s a lot of criticism, I think about a particularly large host that just bought Yoast.

But they have, as do all hosting companies, Bluehost and Inmotion.

They have their own website building agency, if you like, and I think we’re going to see more and more hosts offering web design.

As part of their service, and that that really will increase the stickiness and the profitability of each of.

Their customers yeah, and that and that same host just jumped in and bite.

In the last.

Oh ten days, which is a a plug-in company that has a multitude of woo commerce plugins, so they’ve just become a a player in the Woo Commerce game in a.

Big way actually.

They have, and actually Ronald Giselle, who was the community manager for youth for youth rather for youth.

Uhm, he’s now gone over to woo commerce so.

You know it’s a bit incestuous the WordPress business area.

But you know, I think that.

We have to just embrace what’s happening in Word press.

You know, like the the.

Backlash about Gutenberg when it first came out.

Because we we don’t like change.

Nobody likes change.

You know I was talking to a restaurant owner today.

About the the.

The staff complaining that he was taking fish cakes off the menu for the summer.

Because they don’t like change and they know that they’ll have to deal that deal with.

That with customers.

Saying where the fish cakes gone, you know?

So I I compare Guttenberg to fish cakes really little.

You either love them or loathe them, or you either want them or you don’t want them so.

So I think people have got.

We’ve just got to embrace Gutenberg.

And also it will be.

It will be Gutenberg, you know.

Like Matt says, it’s not just for word press.

You know, seriously everywhere.

I agree, I agree.

Before we get on this summit since you mentioned in your origin story that.

You move because of a security issue with you.

Or a hack or.

Whatever we want to label it as.

And I read from you a tweet.

I guess it’s two or three weeks ago when the whole mess with formulas came down.

And I think you said something.

You had some concerns over security disclosure policies so.

Yeah, I mean yeah, I I, I do agree with them, yeah.

Sorry, finish your question.

I know I know that it’s word fence really not it’s word fence related and I don’t know Mark.

And I love what they’re doing, and they’re protecting a lot of websites out there, but the I’ve said it a couple of times.

I was on another podcast where I just think that.

You know we have an ethical disclosure.

Uhm, policy really it’s not fixed in stone and I get that.

Uhm, we have to give people a chance to fix their stuff before we announce it to the rest of the hackers in the world that there’s a vulnerability.

Because we’re we’re talking about millions of websites, you know 255,000 WordPress websites get installed every single day. That’s that’s a lot of lot of vulnerabilities.

Out there and WordPress like.

Like any other system out there that is in the open web, we have to open our ports.

So therefore we’re going to we’re we’re all open to hacking a WS have been hacked in the past.

You know, big websites like EasyJet in the UK were hacked.

British Airways was hacked, so we have to have some ethical disclosure policies and I think 90 giving people 90 days.

To fix their plug in or fix the vulnerability is the right thing to do, and to announce a vulnerability before that situation is the wrong thing to do.

And they’re also scaremongering and the click baiting.

Kind of headlines that are there.

Yeah so, but.

It’s up to that business to be able to say OK, well, we’re going to do what we want and we’re we’re a security business and we’re going to write a blog post.

Because one.

We want to get some click bait traffic.

Two, we want to promote our business and three one we want to show that we care and I think that the we care bit is the is definitely the third one so.

As I said, I’ve never met the chap I’ve heard him speak, and I’ve seen him write his blog post.

But I think that there is a.

A situation now where we just have to get control of this and say look if you have got a vulnerable.

Extension to any web service.

Then somebody tells you about it.

You’ve got to be given an opportunity to fix it within a 90 day period.

If you don’t fix it.

By all means, we’ll we’ll expose you as not caring and and having that vulnerability, but even word pressing though they didn’t.

They did an emergency update on.

Updraft plus I think updraft plus had A and I could be wrong, but updraft plus have a quite.

A big vulnerability in.

They forced.

It yeah and and word press forced the update.

Is there a case for doing that, or is there a case for saying, well, actually it’s on my hosting, it’s my website.

Do I want that forced?

Do I want WordPress to have absolute access to my website so they can update it?

It’s it’s a weird one, you know.

I I agree with it, it’s hard, you know, and I don’t know what operating system you’re running at home, but.

I worked in a Microsoft world doing support for 21 years and I run Windows and we all know Microsoft patches vulnerabilities every month.

So I.

They do, you know you’re gonna get bugs in it’s it’s.

It’s called the software business Rob yeah, you know you’re gonna get bugs and if you if you use a piece of software and don’t and expect it not to have bugs.

Then don’t use software you know.

Don’t use windows, don’t use Max.

You know in all this myth about Max or unhackable.

Of course they’re hackable, because you’ve got an open port out into the Internet, and anyone can hack something can can reverse engineer something come into you.

And when I use your average pro I have for you.

And and I love it, and it keeps my computer clean.

That keeps it running fast.

But it also, you know provides me with a really quite a robust firewall as well, so you know.

And if you’re not running any kind of antivirus software or protection on your computer, then you shouldn’t really be using a computer, right?

Yeah, I.

So as you shouldn’t be.

Building websites if you don’t put any kind of protection.

On them I would agree, and before we move on the one thing I would add is and I’ve kind of stressed this if you’ve watched my feeds in the last couple of months.

As folks it’s nice to be doing backups, but do you ever test them before you need them like?

Yeah, I get.

It well, what we take, what we tend to do because we’re we’re very lucky you know we’re busy so we’ve got a little bit of cash flow going on and and we use premium services.

You know, I use blog vault and I I will always adore Akshat from that I I’m I’ve met him a good few times and how you know he’s helped me and I’ve helped him with a bit of a few marketing tips.

And we I would say that we are we are.

Warm acquaintances with friends.

Yeah, so I use his service ’cause I trust him.

You know he got hacked a few years ago and and got on it straight away, you know, but you know, use a premium service.

Let’s stop doing free.

Backups for God’s sake, because they just you don’t know whether or not they’ve actually backed up properly. Some of them make a backup on your server, and particularly if you use.

Being a.

Uh, a pseudo manic.

What I call a pseudo managed hosting provider.

You know that your your disks fill up very very quickly with backups, so always do an offsite backup.

You do.

Always you know, just once a week just to turn that back into a staging site and just make sure that that works.

Just in case you’ve got to.

You know, restore a site.

So yeah, backups are.

One of the most important things, but unfortunately, as human beings we’re quite lazy, aren’t we?

I mean, I’m inherently lazy, so I can’t avoid doing anything that’s that gives me too much effort.

Me too.

But yeah, backups that are probably one of them.

Well, the most important thing you can do for a website owner that’s in your care.

I I.

Yeah, I would agree with you, so let’s move on a little bit.

Uhm, the?

Uh, terum summit.

How did this is the second or third one refresh my memory?

Pretty sure it’s the third one, UM.

Word yeah.

You know, veto every I think if you don’t know veto in the WordPress arena you’ve been living under a rock for a while.

I would agree.

You know we we met at the agency transformation live that was done by.

The way Jackson, his name Lee Jackson Lee Matthew Jackson now for himself, which is great.

I haven’t seen Lee for a while, but I I know that he’s.

A maverick for Cloudways.

As a few other people.

Are as well.

But he put together this little 80 strong ATL thing few years ago.

Now, about three years ago and I saw Vito scampering around in a coat.

That was the same coat as mine, but obviously about 3 sizes lighter.

And I thought he’s got taste.

He’s wearing the same coat and he showed me this app that he had.

On his phone.

And I basically courted him, and let him out. I didn’t let him out of my sight for about four months, and I said, you’ve gotta, you gotta sell this on elegantmarketplace.com, which I founded with a few others, and he refused.

He said no, not having any of that.

I want to sell it and said, OK, if you want to sell it in a corner shot, run the superstore carry on and we.

We eventually came to an agreement and I we sold it on elegant marketplace and it.

It went very well, let’s say so from that there was some trust built up because obviously we held a lot of money in in.

Uh, on his behalf you know all the money went through elegant marketplace and it helped him grow and build his team and everything.

So there was loads of trust there, ’cause obviously I owed him the money it was.

It was my business and obviously we paid him on time and the right amount.

And then we got involved on a little online event thing which went OK.

We sold a few of those, but we had some technical issues, so we decided to park that for.

A while

Yep, and then he rang me in.

I think the beginning of September last year.

And talk to me about Berther AI.

So we then launched Berther AI at the end of September with the help of my dev team.

Uh, and obviously after him he asked me to be a Co host with the lovely Stephanie Hudson who runs the focus WP Facebook group and also has focus Co.

Who do white label maintenance for agencies and freelancers?

You know, free them up a bit.

So she offers a great service.

If she’s very experienced.

In the WordPress world.

Runs divvy chat.

And all that.

Kind of stuff, but it was great to be able to work.

With people that had.

Uhm, experience in the web world. You know Vito’s agency was very successful, you know, he built it up from zero to 12 people running it, and a few 100,000 a year.

Turn over Stephanie is a very successful podcaster and runs focus WP, and she also has sweet tea as well.

Get sweet tea, which is her agency so you know we kind of all gel together and became cut.

You know Joseph and I were Co hosts.

On the 1st actor in summit that I was involved in, which was pretty successful. 5000 Plus visitors a day he came in and we just thought we’d you know what? We’ll do it again, but we’ll do more.

More towards agencies rather than just word press, so that’s why it’s called the web agencies and WordPress space, so it’s.

It’s a great summit for people to learn how to work or learn how other people are working on their business.

You know that that that old cliched phrase working on their business rather in rather than in their business, gives them tips and tricks and training and resources, and the speaker list this year is absolutely outstanding.

I mean, it’s it’s it’s great and we’ve got some really cool.

Uhm, sponsors as well. You know, Peach pay excessively. GoDaddy Pro Weglot who.

Received 45 million euros, $50 million in investments. So it shows that they’re, you know, we’re we’re we’re being involved or getting involved with companies that are growing and successful.

You know main WP Groundhog Adrian to be from Groundhog is a real clever guy in excess and liquid web.

You know the that?

It goes on Inmotion hosting, can Visio?

And of course, Bertha, obviously.

But there’s, you know, go to atrim dot IO for Slash summit and you can see all the sponsors and see all the the speakers and what I love.

About the the featured experts and you know, we’ve we’ve gone for build.

We’ve gone for expand so build your business, expand your business, and then we’ve gone for scale.

So then you can grow, you know, really grow your business, scale it out and then the final part is thrive.

You know, so you make your business thrive and that’s the.

And as I say, the speakers are just outstanding on you.

Got we’ve got some well known.

People in there.

We’ve got actually a lovely Rosie Robinson who I I coached or I still coach for the last couple of years.

We’ve coached and her her growth has been absolutely phenomenal.

And it’s all down to her about, you know there’s been a shoulder for for her to scream and shout out when it’s when it’s.

Going a little pear shaped or should I go in this direction?

We’ve got Hans Kilroe, who’s just a fantastic friend of mine and I’m lucky enough to go to Chicago.

Next week to go and stay with hands and do not return again as well.

We’ve got some Matt Miller tech.

I’m, you know, amazing, successful showing us how to grow our business with social media.

You know I could go through all of them.

We’ve got Deepti, the bodapati, and of course, the the ultimate man in the in the world of WordPress and Gutenberg and helping people build funnels.

You know, we’ve got Spencer Foreman as well, so it’s a really exciting time.

To be in the WordPress, WordPress and Web page.

See arena because you know after and we we’re expecting thousands of people to attend daily, so it’s a big event to run.

And Vito does a great job of that, and obviously we’ve got a team behind it.

Stephanie, Stephanie, Hudson and myself are part of that team and we get we get to input into the.

The speakers as well.

You know, one of my favorites was was Noah.

Who is an expert in trying to remember what it is?

I forget what it is, but it’s he’s an expert in in systemizing everything.

So you know why parts of the problems are running an agency and then growing and getting more customers and more staff?

And then you have to get processes and systems in.

If you haven’t already done that.

Now we’re Britain, so he’s going to basically give us a crash course on getting your sales processes dialed in by using and he uses a particular.

Uh system and he’s going to teach us all about that as well, so you know, it’s it’s pretty cool.

And of course we got.

I’ve got to mention, while a person Melissa Love who is the the queen of DV Child theme, she was the first person ever to make a child theme for DV and sell it and sell them at a profit.

But she’s going to be talking about how to build.

On sleazy sales funnels you know, so she’s she’s.

She’s probably one of my.

Favorite people in all of the.

World No, that’s awesome.

And oh and and the list just keeps growing.

I I.

It’s crazy, yeah, for those who don’t know how actually be doing a target to summit on growing your digital agency by podcasting.

So there’s another.

But I see it, I see it.

It’s not.

I didn’t want to, you know, I wanted to give you an opportunity.

Yeah, or anything, but it’s you know, and that’s it.

The advice of doing a podcast for this.

This has helped you grow your business right?

Yeah, of course.

And it’s funny.

I wanted to share with you quick stories.

You mentioned Adrian to be.

So a lot of people may or may not know that I actually took digital marketing courses through Adrian’s dad. Paul and I have Paul coming up on the podcast really soon and Adrian and I just sat down and talked about Groundhog and one of the things I shared in that conversation was.

I can remember when Adrian was developing Groundhog and he would show me little screenshots of what he was working on, so I saw stuff before he had a name to it and he’d show me little things and say, come, look at this in the office and come look.

At that in the office so.

He is a really bright person.

He’s local, he now he’s originally from Toronto.

He now lives in Niagara Falls, and he’s pretty local so.

But the guest list is amazing.

Uhm, it’s funny.

I was looking earlier today at Spencer stock and we all know Spencer Foreman in a WordPress.

Face up well known and I love that Spencer is talking to feature of WordPress for enterprise because you and I were talking before.

I think that’s the way it’s going.

I’ve got no doubt.

I’ve got no doubt and Spencer.

Actually is is.

I think Spencer is one of the most.

Vocal yes about UM.

WordPress, being an enterprise solution.

And it’s proven, you know, look at WordPress VI.

I think you’re.

Yes, yeah.

You I think your minimum hosting charge for WordPress VIP is about 15 grand a month.

I could be wrong, but it’s you know it’s in the thousands and it proves that people want their websites to be looked after by professionals.

Look at pagely, you know go.

Bought pagely not so long ago and and I’ve always said you know, if you can’t build it, buy it because you know GoDaddy had. Obviously they’ve got their own culture.

Love them or loathe them, you know lots of people load them for really the wrong reasons. I’ve touchwood I’ve never had a problem with GoDaddy when I when a client has said oh I host with GoDaddy, I said no problem. You know, I don’t really mind we, we, we deal with, you know, the.

Kitchen shop hosts and we deal with the big host.

It’s not a problem, you just have to learn their systems and as soon as you learn their systems you can operate your services as a white label maintenance person quite quite well, but what what’s what?

Spencer is really talking about.

Word Press enterprise is.

Making sure that you only use the tools that are appropriate to your website.

You know you don’t need, uhm, you know I’ve I’ve go into some WordPress websites and there’s 70 or 80 plugins and and you know frankly.

On Berther AI we’ve got about 50 or something because we need them for sales processes and little bits of programming, but.

And also people under under.

Really don’t understand what what you know nought laypeople.

Let’s say don’t understand what the plug in is.

Yes, we could build that in as a function, not a problem, but actually let’s let’s just save you some money and put a plug in because that’s all it is.

It’s it’s just adding functions and extending WordPress to be more appropriate to your particular business.

What I’m concerned about is E commerce.

You know we use easy digital downloads and we do some woo commerce work.

Woo commerce along with a lot of other page builders say or you don’t need to be a coder.

But you really do. You know you need to know a little bit about code if you really want to take advantage of all these plugins and WooCommerce is free at source, but actually if you want to do anything with WooCommerce, you gotta budget $1800 a year. U.S. dollars to be able to have your funnels built correctly or.

Emails nicely branded PDF invoices, for instance is A is an extra you know.

Abandoned carts, all that kind of stuff and and so people then look at Shopify so well, that’s got that all built in for 25 bucks a month or or whatever.

But then if you start turning over more than a couple of grand a month with Shopify, they start charging you 75 bucks a month. If you want pose a point of sale solution for your bricks.

Mortar business then you’re talking 250 to two and a half, $1000 a month. So you have to.

Uh, as word press people, we have to educate the people that we are serving to ensure that they’re getting the best value for money out of what we’re doing for them as as service providers and we charge them the right price for us so that we’re there next week to to be able to service them.

And also the right price for the premium add ONS that we’re we’re recommending.

So we try and cut those down and Spencer is an advocate of.

I want some my my iPhone plug to be the same plug as my Android plug and I want everything to fit together nicely and so I kind of just trying to make sure that whatever we use talks to each other nicely there they aren’t using the same functions or hooks or or anything like that so.

He sure is.

There’s no question.

There’s conflicts and and that’s what he’s trying to do, and he will get there eventually.

He’s very strong personality, so he he will manage to.

Swayed, certainly his audience that his way is the best way and I by wishing the best of luck with that because I love what he’s doing.

I I do too and I I actually find him one of.

The most helpful.

People out there too.

When you reach out to him and say I need some advice, I need a hand.

Can you point me in a direction he’s always willing to do that for the community?

Yeah, and he answers his phone.

He’s very like much like me.

You know we we had a phone call the other day.

We finished a podcast and I rang him afterwards to.

Keep on that.

Keep the discussion going ’cause there was some quite important facts and I was in my car picking up someone from the airport and he answered the phone and he kept me company on the phone all the way to the airport and we we we made a couple of.

Decisions and solutions you know.

And also he’s he works hard for the plug in.

Or for product makers as well, you know.

So he represents them as far as hosts are concerned.

He represents them trying to get them into enterprise solutions and stuff like that.

So he is really a real advocate for product makers as well as customers and what they need and desire, so yeah.

It’s great to have him on board after him.

It’s amazing at the ultimate summit.

It sure is, you know, as funny as going through the list and the other one we were talking a little bit about woo commerce and that sticks out in my.

Mind right away is David Manners chat, the co-founder of Peach Pray about the future of online checkouts and payments and this is an age old problem in the world that every time we get a wood discussion, it’s what are we doing about checkouts and what are we doing about payment processing and what complicates it is certain.

Payment processors don’t work in certain countries of the world, and that’s part of the issue, but nobody has found the secret sauce to streamlining the Woo commerce checkout process at this point in time.

Uhm, well, I think Spencer has actually.

If you.

You look at what he’s doing with we funnels, but that’s on a per product basis.

Yes, yeah.

I suppose the the problem with.

Checkouts is.

You know we’ve had this phrase for donkeys years.

3 clicks to buy, haven’t we?

And and it never is because the credit card companies are becoming more strict on the requirements that they need.

So they need post code Geo.

Do full name address even when you know people complain to me often times and they say why do you need my address.

It’s a digital product and, well, I need your address to make sure that you pay pal, you know.

Let’s choose the pun, but.

You know, it’s difficult we, you know I had a conversation with Stripe.

Actually a long 2 hour support called with with stripe because we’re getting a lot of.

Uhm, in our Striper Council for our various business we’re getting a lot of rejections for no funds.

And and the emails are going automatically out to the customers and saying you know your card was rejected because there’s insufficient funds and there you know a lot of people coming.

How dare you?

I’ve got loads of money in the bank, what’s going on and I said, well, you know, it got rejected by your credit card company, so could you please just have a word with them and it was mainly MasterCard and a couple of visas and everything and I even.

Some service providers reject my credit card or my debit card into into my bank, and I know there’s money in there.

You know it’s my business account, so there’s definitely money in there, and I think there’s a bit of an issue at the moment with.

Credit cards being very, very strict or or the car payment companies being very very strict on the criteria that they’re allowing people to buy stuff online, particularly coincidentally, since the 20.

No no.

4th of February.

Which is when the Ukraine got invaded.

But I don’t. I’m not a conspiracy theorist, but I don’t think it’s anything to do with that, but it is just it seems too much of a coincidence from the 24th of Feb we’ve had more rejections on our our credit card payments than ever before, which is, and it causes us.

As a business.

You know, say you’ve got 100 rejections, you’ve gotta. You’ve gotta make sure the emails went out and said, you know, your service is going to be disrupted because you’re not paying.

You gotta give them seven days to change their credit card number.

Then when they don’t have, the service is rejected and I didn’t get the email and why have you cut my subscription off and all that kind of stuff?

Uhm, you know.

So it is a problem and I think one of the areas that we that I think Peach pays soul.

Is that they are and I could be wrong, but I think they’re that they’re the payment processor.

Or they they’ve got very good relationships with the payment processors and and also they allow you obviously to.

Pay to two different countries and there’s very political reasons why we can’t send money to Pakistan by PayPal and or II. For instance, restricts PayPal payments into accounts because of their very strict banking system so.

You know that those those that’s an issue, but you’ve got if you’re paying your suppliers, you know I’ve got employees full time employees in India and I pay their wages by whitespace.

Or wise as it’s now called because I was paying them through PayPal and all of a sudden that that can’t happen for some reason.

I and I certainly can’t pay my Pakistani based developers by PayPal, ’cause there’s PayPal doesn’t exist in in in Pakistan and some and Turkey and all.

Sorts of places.

You know?

Uh, Argentina.

I think has got some problems with PayPal as well, so but that’s I think it’s more political from that.

They’re not allowed to deal with with those countries from. From the American perspective, but so I could be wrong. Ioffer now.

I think it all started actually the payment processing issues.

About six months ago.

There’s there’s a website out there called the onlyfans and you may or may not know the story, but it’s kind of.

I I am a grown up so I do know about only fans and the and the way that they weren’t allowed to, yeah.

They make they make money, yeah, and I’m not.

I’m not using this platform to say we should agree with **** or not agree with **** That’s not my.

That’s not my point, but it’s funny.

The payment processors all allowed ONLYFANS to operate.

And then they came to Onlyfans and said, wait a minute here, you guys, we’ve made thousands of dollars off you in percentages.

And by the way, we’re going to shut you down, so find another payment processor so only fans decided to take the approach and say, oh, we just won’t allow any more adult content for the sake argument.

On our on our platform and arguing it was a conduit for.

Sex workers and all that stuff.

And my argument would be, well, you made money off all these people when the going was good and now you have a problem.

So what’s going on here?

And there’s so much that going on when that Debackle started that it’s the old story.

It doesn’t suit us.

But ugly now, so we’ll just.

Cut it off.

And well, I think Stripe then came to an.

Arrangement because, well.

Let’s not forget that Onlyfans isn’t just about the **** side, there are.


I was talking to a lady the other day that does waxing.

And she wants to do a lesson.

She wants to do.

Teach people how to do waxing properly.

You know intimate waxing.

I’m talking about.

So she’s setting up an onlyfans account, so there’s nothing.

This yes, it’s might be adult oriented because you know you gotta be detailed about where you’re going and what you’re doing, but.

So that’s an only fan.

I know a chef that he’s on that has got an onlyfans account.

I know, uh, fashionista that has got an onlyfans account, so it’s not just about the the adult industry side and we have to.

I think we have to accept no matter which where we’re coming from.

If we’re if we’re off faith or if we’re not of faith, whatever.

Our attitude towards sex workers has got to be one of being open minded and accepting if they are an individual sex worker.

As long as there’s no exploitation going on, which we can’t really check or double check.

You know, let them earn their 30 grand am I?

Sending I mean there was one girl that was sending farts in jars and earned 30 grand.

You know a month.

Uhm, because there are people out there that want to buy farts in jars.

You know what can you do?

Robert, there’s we’ve got some.

We’ve got what 7 billion people in the world?

And some of them are just weird, you know.

It’s it’s so true.

Let’s let’s move back to the summit for a minute.

So we’ve got all these amazing speakers.

The submit kind of takes place over a three day period, right?

And so when is the summit happening?

Allison yeah.

What’s the best way?

If somebody wants to see all these?

Great speakers too.

Get involved and go watch.

Well, it’s free if you want to watch it every single day, so you can go on with doing it.

Launch around about the 24th of April or the 23rd of April.

I hope it’s no sooner that ’cause I’ll be in the states.

I I come back.

From the states on the 20th of April.

And and we’re doing stuff myself and Vito are doing a pre launch webinar on it, so that’s a roundabout.

I can’t remember the date to be honest and I’m very bad on that. But 23rd or 24th?

Uh, April.

We’re doing the we’re doing the web and all that will be all around LinkedIn and and live on YouTube and in various Facebook groups as well.

So doing a kind of similar thing to to what we’re doing now, introducing the speakers and introducing the booze and everything.

Because the the great thing about this is that the sponsors have booths and they have swag.

To to give away or prizes to give away.

So it’s very much like a live what we wanted to do was produce.

Of a virtual.

Uhm, summit?

That felt as though you were.

You were really there so you could visit the boos of the sponsors.

The sponsors could get the advantage that they do at various word camps or similar summits that they do you know, for instance, we went to Cloud Fest last week.

We’re talking now it’s end of March, isn’t it?

So weird I was.

Last week I went Vito and I went to Cloud Fest.

We met a whole bunch of people.

In the in the web space you know from from hosts to WordPress people to extend your files.

I’m lucky enough to meet up with Chris and Art from from extended fires away, and Jacoby from Cloudways.

I always call him Jacobi, so don’t worry about it.

He won’t be offended and.

So do I.

So there you go.

A good good few people.

Uhm, had some drinks and some networking had a lovely meeting with the codable guys that are just awesome, you know and.

So we we we had some good good meet ups and good chats and I think.

You know their view, the people that are sponsoring us on the uttering summit is is.

Their view is that this is the most real virtual summit that you can come to if you’re in in the web agency and WordPress arena and and so they’ve invested in us, they’ve trusted.

They trusted the Atom Summit too.

And promote them as well as you know what we’re trying to do and trying to help people and and really give them the the best advice.

And also we let’s not forget that we’ve got media partners as well that are that that have signed up to help us promote the event.

You know, we’ve got some great media partners behind as people that really want to be involved in this.

Summit in some small way, and there’s no real benefit to them other than.

And you know having their logo on the on the front of the summit pages and say, yeah, we are.

We are a media partner and you’ll see loads of people just tweeting and Facebooking and linking and and all that kind of stuff.

You know, we’ve got.

We’ve got a lovely little arrangement with post status.

Do the woo.

Obviously lovely Bob from do the woo and you know.

Copy Flight WP founders stunning marketing.

Uhm, Kim Doyle, who’s also a speaker with design who’s that’s Rosie Robinson.

She’s going to speak and and really give some good advice on, you know how to grow your business from.

Literally nothing.

She’s done amazing work folks.

WP obviously poodle press the lovely Jamie Mask Marston from Poodle Press who’s doing some awesome work on Gutenberg and and obviously people that want to help promote the the summit and also help promote their businesses.

You know, by being associated with.

Such a such a big event and a well run in mid touchwood.

Let’s hope it’s going to be as well run as it ever was, but and and I I I love it that we that Stephanie Hudson I worked together as Co hosts taking a bit of pressure of veto, and we’re all there with there for the whole three or four days that it’s.

That it’s there or happening.

And obviously because we’re we’re quite experienced in the podcasting world, so if something goes wrong, which is part of, why veto one?

Is one of us involved?

Is we don’t panic, you know.

If a if a.

Feed goes down or something like that.

We can just come back on and say hi that feeds gone down.

We’ll, we’ll get it back to you as soon as possible and we can have a little chat and keep people entertained and answer any questions that anybody has and also also moderate.

The chat as well so you know we’ve got.

There’s quite a lot to do and I remember the first time I did it.

I think we were.

It was a five day and then got extended by a day because something went wrong.

You know which is it’s online, So what do you expect?

So extend it another day so it’s it’s complete.

Sort of 12 hours sitting in my chair and I remember the next week I had to go see a chiropractor ’cause my back was killing me.

You know it’s worth it.

It’s worth it.

It’s entertaining.

It’s what we try and do is.

We try and educate and entertain at the same time.

Because, you know when you’re walking around the word camp or when you’re walking around the summit or anything like that, you get entertained because you you meet people and you network, and that’s the whole point of the booths as well.

You can go into the GoDaddy booth. You can go into the weglot booth and and meet the people that actually build the business and and help you. But you’ve also got networking lounges that you can go into and meet people in the in the.

The Internet world that we’re all involved in, and then when you meet them in real life.

You feel as though you’ve known them forever and you’ve then become lifelong friends, which is really cool.

That’s what I like about these about this one, particularly like about the actor in summit.

It’s it feels real.

I so I so agree with you know as funny I was joking with somebody the other day.

I’m speaking I’m a media partner and they said how many talks are you gonna probably see?

And I said, honest.

Sling, I’ll probably choose one or two and I’ll spend most of my time in one of the sponsors, both.

Just networking with people.

That’s typically what I do, and I know to give you an idea of the year before the pandemic.

Wordcamp Toronto I saw one talk in two days.

I spent most of my time catching up with people I just I think that’s not that the speakers aren’t important, but I think also catching up with people and networking from a business standpoint and sharing ideas is a really good way to go to be honest.

And I completely agree with you.

The whole point about having so many speakers available is that you can pick and choose the ones that you are.

You know, I really want to listen to this person because I’m having problem with with my web design in elementor like Imran Siddique who we is is now part of Bertha and does all our birth or educational videos is a really well versed web developer in elementary.

He’s also a great salesperson so he knows.

How to get clients?

On board, so he’s going to be do.

Uhm, you know a talk on how to stand out and and get your client proposals ready.

And he’s also quite into it.

Is very entertaining, in fact.

But you’ve got.

The point about that you’ve got an opportunity to upgrade in Atom Summit and I really do recommend that.

And there’s an early bird price going to be announced soon.

Or if it’s not announced now, but certainly you’ll be able to subscribe and you get all of those videos.

And talks forever.

You know, though, as as long as a server exists, they they will be available to you to watch at your leisure.

You don’t have to panic and go home.

Oh God, I can’t watch this or or whatever.

You can just pay a really small amount of investment in your business will go towards providing the servers and providing the services of being able to rewatch and or relearn certain things within the Athron summit, and that’s one of the benefits of having.

Well established businesses, you know, after him and and Berther and Weglot and and GoDaddy behind it. That’s what the sponsors help us with.

They they help us with and vicio.

Who are, you know, our main server that they’re providing service to us for for attarine because Tom.

Is really behind the summit and loves actually being involved in it, so you know we’ve chosen the people that we work with very, very carefully.

So that they’re stable and they’ve got future in them and and we can make sure that these talks are accessible by everyone.

After the event as well, so you know, that’s.

And as I say, that’s the whole point, and that’s what you don’t get from a a live event.

Actually, ’cause you might say, oh, I met someone.

I met someone in Wordcamp Boston.

What the heck was their name we were talking about this and they talked.

They talked about that and I know I’ve missed out on it.

And and maybe you can get it on WordPress TV for a while, but you.

You know that when you log into the Azure in summit as a as a member, you’ve got full access to everything that has gone on within the summit itself, so you don’t have to stick yourself by the screen.

We’d like you to come live.

Of course we would, but if you don’t have time to watch your everything, or you don’t particularly want to watch everything.

While it’s like.

That’s up to you and you can just sign up to the the membership, which is cool.

And it’s funny what I what I usually end up doing is with some.

It’s when I sign up for a membership.

I’ll take the video.

And I’ll translate it to audio and toss them.

My podcast player and then listen to it when when I’m out and about too so you know.

Great, I do say that I.

I do agree I’m not only I’m an avid podcast or doing a podcast, I probably listen to 30 podcasts a week too, so.

Well, that that’s why you don’t have time to have five businesses like I’ve got.

Thank you.

Your buddy.

I listen to your podcast.

I listened to Matt Medeiros.

I was lucky enough to be on his podcast the other day and I did a WP minute as well.

Yeah you too.

I listened to Bob do the woo even though I don’t use woo commerce or I could try and avoid it like the plague.

I just like I like.

Bob Voice we we’ve got a guy that did a TV show.

I’m trying to remember what it was called but his name was whispering Bob Harris.

And you know, I love the way that Bob kind of talks into the mic, and he’s a bit so.

A bit quiet on the on that side, but also very informative as well and educational.

That’s the key.

Isn’t an amusing yeah.

The only thing I have to commend your team for is what you, your group did.

That’s different from many other groups.

You know both post status has done the same thing for some of their stuff you’ve you’ve actually offered to pay.

Your speakers, an honorarium which I thought was a really interesting idea and one of the things I said, and I’ll put it out there and challenge anybody else who’s involved is donated to Big Orange heart and be done.

With it like I.

You know, I’m I think I think it’s just great to be involved and you know there’s an option if you don’t, if you.

You say, ah, I really don’t want to take in this from a profit donated, and as far as I’m concerned, big or in charge is a big.

Uh, helped to many of us in the word press space.

And I, and you’re not wrong, you know Dan has worked and his team, you know I was.

I was, uh, when I had elegant marketplace, I donated to them on a regular basis and I haven’t done for a while.

I think I gave them a few $100 about six months ago or something like that, but it’s just something that you know you tend to tend to do as and when you get an opportunity when you get reminded.

And that’s the problem, isn’t it?

You know we have to be reminded that there are people out there that are struggling.

Uhm day to day with their.

Uhm, mental health and it’s a subject that interests me.

Because we all we, we, we.

I think depression wasn’t acknowledged.

As an illness.

Until literally 10 years ago, maybe 15.

But there are a lot of people that have bouts of depression.

There are a lot of people that and this, you know it’s a trigger word as well, but there’s a lot of people out there that get absolutely stressed out about what other people might think.

Well, where’s the issue there?

Is it?

Why are you stressed out about that?

And part of the reason I actually started my coaching business?

Uh, and I’m very selective about who I take on as well.

I don’t.

I take I take on, maybe I’ve got three coaching clients at the moment.

I don’t take them any more than three because there’s pressure on me.

Then you know.

So I try and keep the stress out of my life as well.

But what big orange heart can do for?

Uhm, people within our community.

The word press community is give them a shoulder to cry on.

And that helps immensely.

There is no cure for depression.

But what there is is there there are places to go, and I think there’s thousands of hours that they they give to people for.

And and they’re, they’ve got some very big sponsors, but it takes an awful lot of money to run something like big Orange heart.

So I think your suggestion is great, however.

There are some people that are presenting that are living in.

Areas where.

A couple 100 bucks is a lot of money yeah and and that will help them.

I know you really can’t.

That will help them progress as well and I think it’s right that Pete.

I’ve always thought it was right.

That if you have a speaker.

And let’s face it, 200 bucks is kind of a just a gesture. It’s not a it’s not a great great amount of money, but it also gives you an opportunity to say here’s 200 bucks, you know, for your time that you’re spending putting this together.

Go and buy yourself a A a nice dinner or something or whatever, or buy yourself a great T shirt or buy some swag.

But it’s also that you know there’s an alternative you you either get a chance within your speaking opportunity to promote your own business, or your own offering if it’s appropriate, or you get the 200 bucks.

And if you want to donate the two on your box, do it.

Don’t donate it to any course, but if you want to donate it, the big orange, orange heart.

That’s a great suggestion.

Uhm, but it’s not.

Yeah, it’s like us.

We have problems with, you know I’m on a plot on another podcast and you’re on a podcast and you want people to come onto your podcast.

And some people need rewarding for that.

But then there’s budget constraints.

There’s the fact that you’re running the podcast.

The fact that you want to promote people as well, so is that the payment and I think it was Joe Casabona that mentioned the fact that that it was a bit cheeky for people not to be paid.

To appear on a on a summit, which obviously sponsors are involved and there’s money involved and whatever, but it’s actually very expensive to run a summit and and also to keep it going forever in a day, because the, you know, the offer.

As I said, the upgrade offer is you get it forever.

You know, as long as we’re alive, I suppose.

But it’s just dumb.

So there are difficulties there, but also with podcasters.

Should they pay for their guests, it’s.

A tough one in it.

Yeah, it it sure is what I will say is and you’re on a regular podcast with Jonathan and Denwood, right?

And yeah, I’m on a podcast and I’ve been on other podcasts.

We’ve both been on WP builds.

This weekend we’re pressed with Nathan and.

It’s fine.

Yeah, I can’t stand that fella.

I’m joking, he’s the he’s.

He’s just probably the one of the best podcasters out there isn’t nothing.

Yeah, and actually it’s funny.

I just had him and Bob done on with me that I released a couple days ago and we talked.

But we we had so much fun together, I should tell.

You Andrew it was.

I know I listen to it.

Don’t worry, I did listen to it.

I gave you the courtesy of listening to it before I came on here, but it’s you know I love Nathan attitude.

It’s just.

He’s quietly professional, but you wouldn’t.

He is.

You wouldn’t ever guess.

Generally, it’s just he’s just brilliant at what he does.

He really is.

It’s it’s a.

It’s my favorite Monday podcast.

I I start my work week off because that’s at 9:00 AM Eastern Time.

The listen.

Uh, the show I did with Nathan couple weeks ago was 10.

Just ’cause there’s a time zone shift and that’s how I start my business week off every every Monday.

I think you and I were saying oh to each other in the chat room recently.

So it’s kind.

Exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Of like the.

I was lucky enough to be on it the other day.

Actually, I’ve been on it a couple of times and.

We you know you just.

I think you know there are some podcasts that are a bit dry out there and also the podcasts that are.

Just the person or the podcaster.

They can be very dry because it’s their opinion and maybe they’re doing some news and stuff like that, but I think this is where Matt has got it.

Matt Medeiros has got it pretty well sussed.

I mean, he’s he’s another excellent podcast.

As are you, you know.

I listen to your podcast regularly.

Thank you.

And just.

You know, you know there’s some life there.

There’s some there liveliness.

There’s a bit of humor, there’s because it could be that you know a lot of podcasts can just end up being very dry and you think oh it’s half an hour I’m not going to get back but never mind you know.

Yeah, as a rule I try and keep.

It’s a it’s a thing.

Solo shows to five or six minutes.

A quick tip and out the door for exactly that reason, and it was funny with what I was going to say.

Do you do?

We’re talking about guests and it’s worth mentioning.

Thing is, I find the more consistent you are with your podcast, the easier it is to get people on.

I mean the show that you do with Jonathan.

You people have no problems getting people on your roundtable show at all.

And Oh yeah, well, we do actually.

But you know, it is because the roundtable show the Friday Roundtable show which I’m not on regularly anymore because I’m busy on a front.

You know I said to Jonathan.

Friday is my golf day and it’s just the wrong time for me on a Friday.

Today so I’ve now transitioned to the Thursday Co hosting and we just interviewing one person, but the I was on the Friday podcast last week.

Actually, because I I I was messaged and said look we’re one guest short so you gotta come on so I did and it was a real laugh but it’s it’s sometimes it’s not suitable for work.

You know there’s a bit of swearing that goes on, which I think is great.

It’s a good, it’s good fun, but also, you know some of the.

Content is not some of the content that I would particularly be interested in in the WordPress space, UM.

Although it has relevancy because it’s WordPress and tech.

So I don’t know about it.

You know?

I don’t know enough about it to be able to be a valued.

Panel member do you know John?

Do you see what I mean?

Yeah I do.

There’s not.

I can’t really comment on the American side of the business because I’m a UK based and I can’t really comment on the Amazons of this world or the Facebooks of this world because I feel that they’ve given us all an opportunity to watch Netflix to connect.

With people to to have fantastic Facebook groups, I tend not to post too much on my own Facebook page.

That’s personal.

I might put up the old egg and bacon fries.

Post or, you know, tease my twin brother that I’m playing golf at Wentworth or something.

You know ’cause he just always reacts.

Because he’s a.

He’s a low handicap golfer and he just says why are you playing and he can’t even play golf, you know and all that kind of stuff, but I use I use Facebook for business and I I love it and whatever the controversy is around privacy or anything.

I find that we’ve got phones.

Everyone knows what we’re doing.

Do you know what I mean?

So just.

It’s so true.

Just round down a bit.

I mean, if you want to be private as I always say to people.

Talk to Mr Elon Musk.

Get on a rocket.

Go to the moon, yeah.

And then when you get to the moon, build yourself a bubble and don’t talk to anybody ever again and exactly.

Because you walk it.

Pretty much why.

Yeah, pretty much what I’m doing this week because I’m I’m self isolating.

I’ve got a COVID test on Monday morning before my USA.

Trip and I’m paranoid about getting kovid, so just the golfing.

I accepted because it was outside and we don’t touch each other and then they came up to shake my hands.

On it, Nope, there’s.

Like you know and then jelled every every.

Other hole but.

You know it’s.

It’s important for me to go to America.

I’ve got lots of appointments and I really want to.

You know, I want to visit my friends and my colleagues and stuff so I’m I’m self isolating this week until at least Monday when my hopefully my Clover test will provide a negative result.

They will actually let you into the US survey.

Exactly, I’ll be allowed into the US of a. I mean, you know the The thing is with.

The UK now you don’t need.

Any of that you just come in, you know.

So I think that will be the stage that we’re at.

But you know the pandemic has helped people like you.

You know, podcasts have become very, very popular.

During the pandemic and the lockdowns and everything because people just couldn’t go out, so they have to do something else other than watch a film on Netflix twice a night, but you know?

It’s a difficult situation COVID exists.

There are some people that deny that it does.

It’s very real.

People get very ill with it.

Uh, so we have to be careful.

It’s it’s as simple as that and I I would be very disappointed if I come out positive on Monday morning because it means that all the arrangements I’ve made.

The seven meetings I’ve got over the 15 day period plus all the different flights that I’ve arranged would be.

It would be really quite annoying if I that’s positive you know, so I’m hoping against hope.

But there you go.

Anyway, Andrew, thanks for jumping on and talking about the summit today.

Where can people go to to register for the Atarim Summit?

Where can people get ahold of you if they have any questions?

Well, the most important thing is at https://atarim.io/summit/

Go there, just register for attendance there.

And as I say, it’s free for everybody throughout the three or four days that it’s on.

And if you want to upgrade, you can.

To find me, it’s very easy on all over the place, but you can get me @arniepalmer on Twitter and obviously you can go to my own plugin and web design website wppluginsplus.com.

Uh, and see what we’re up to and maybe even buy a plug in or two.

House there and be sure when you talked to Andrew to ask him about his golf game.

He’s never at a loss for words.

On that one.

Listen, I I wanted I won today so I’m quite happy and I actually won and walked away with some cash.

Which is good.

Always good.

Thanks Andrew, thanks for joining me.

Have a great day.

Thank you Sir.

Thanks for having me, I really appreciate it.


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