Show Notes:

Rob Cairns  

Okay, I’m here with Todd Jones today and we’re gonna talk copywriting. How are you today?

Todd Jones

Well, it’s not quite as hot today. So maybe I’ll do okay. I don’t have any weather, unfortunately.

Rob Cairns

Yeah, it’s getting to be fall. . So down here, you can have it. So one of the things that Todd’s done recently is he’s put together a copy writers framework. So I wanted to start to ask you, why did you T

Todd Jones

Wow. Okay, that’s three questions. Um, basically, as I was doing copywriting projects, I needed to have a process for myself, that was repeatable, that I could use for every project and put all this together. And in that process, I did these little worksheets that were kind of meant to be lead magnets. And Paul Lacey said, Hey, man, these are good, you should sell them. Really? Okay. So I started putting those together and, and just kept adding things to the package. And but I think one of the problems with website content website copy, especially when a lot of developers are trying to get it from their client, who, who chooses to do the content themselves that the clients will unsure about? What to do that, you know, the blank screen syndrome, what am I writing here? Why am I writing this? And so the framework is to help with that. So you have a little bit of a skeleton framework for what to include, on your homepage, your about page and your service page. And I give a, the copywriting framework I use for those is very simple, one that a lot of copywriters, us, not certainly not unique to me. And as PAS stands for problem agitate solution. So we use that in there. I developed my about page from some resources that I actually referred to in the framework, and built worksheets to help fill in some of the details. So if you go through the framework, you will at least have thought about what’s your one line, your benefit phrase, your one line benefit. copywriters, and marketers call it value proposition. But basically, it’s a one line or one sentence one two sentence long benefit statement about your business.

Todd Jones

And then you also think about the benefits and the pain points to solve. To write effective copy. For those pages, you need to know what problems you’re solving and why those benefits are. And then it’s like I liken it to building a building with Legos or something, you’re, you’re putting together individual parts, and you’re building a building. And so that’s kind of how that’s laid out. So you have a number of worksheets, you have blog posts that turn into ebooks that are in there to kind of give you more context for the about page and all page. And just pretty much everything if you hired me to do a least three pages for you. I will be walking you through this. So basically, you’re getting the worksheets and the process that I would use to write your website copy.

Rob Cairns

And isn’t one of the biggest problems we all know, as we talked about, you talked about the blank syndrome page. It’s also its own, there’s time you, you know, web developer, an agency goes to him, he says we you can hire a copywriter, not a copywriter. And they say no, I don’t want to spend the cost, right? That’s an issue. And so they sit down, and then they sit on the copy for three weeks. And the poor web agency saying Well, where’s my stuff?

Todd Jones

Yeah, you know, understand, because a good copywriter can cost you as much as the build of the website. And so not every business has that in their budget. I remember one time when I was working with agency, I got a call, I got a project that I pretty much did everything except for the design that was handed to me from the girl in the office. And it was for a local company in the state where I live. And they had two or three locations. And so I’d project manage the project, I built the develop the design, the website, and I was supposed to input the content from the client, I believe the guy it said that I will have my wife to do she as an English degree. A year later, we finally launched the website. People underestimate the the how hard it is to do copy, business. And also underestimate the value of that copy. So you say oh, well costs, you know, several thousand dollars to build the site. But the truth is, if you launch a site with nothing in it, it’s not going to do a good. So you know, it is a it’s a you know, it’s I’ve had developers to tell me, people say, well just put something in there, I don’t really think you want your developer to put Laura maps in there, you’re not going to go very far with that. So you got to have copy there. And it’s got to be reasonable. Make sense. And the the goal of a site usually, is to get someone to take action. So your copy needs to be do that. You’re not going to take this and write copy on par with the best copywriters. But I do introduce you to some very basic copywriting principles that you can that you’re still going to need to write the content. So if you go through all this the framework, you you think about some stuff that a lot of marketers would have you to think about, at the end of the day, somebody’s still gonna have to write the content, they’re going to have to put two words together, sentences together paragraphs and so forth, is still going to have to be done, but you have the information you have built, you know that part out, you should be able to hand it to a writer, and you like him take that and build it. Now, ideally, it could be me, but either way, if you have somebody you know, so people just miss miss it or underestimate the amount of time it takes to do a project like that. And they think they’re going to come home at night at the other day and set down what their computer and write some stuff and, and you might be able to do that, if you’re not too tired or don’t have other things pressing. But it’s certainly not going to be very effective. So this way, you can at least write something somewhat effective with some structure to it. And, you know, again, like I said, You’re still probably going to be a writer, it can be somebody in your town or somebody on your staff, they would have the information to put it together. And you might want an extra set of eyes or two to edit. You know, just to make sure things are cleaned out. You know, I’ve made this quote many times, and I can remember it while I’m on the on the spot. But you know, the cure for writer’s block is research. That is something that Joanna wheat from copy hackers likes to say, yeah, that’s basically what you’re doing here, you know, your writer’s block, you’re not sure what you’re gonna be writing? Well, in this case, you will, because you’ll have done the work. So

Rob Cairns

I think that’s the key to any book, to be honest with you, whether it’s writer’s block design block, is to is to research and I think the other key is sometimes, if you’re having a tough time with it, just honestly, put it down and go for a walk.

Todd Jones

Yeah, yeah, what I like to do is, because I, sometimes my articles and stuff that I write are written in blocks, literally blocks all open up Notepad, yeah, write that section. But you know, you just write in, they use a more crude word, but your crappy first draft is write it, get it out, you can always go back and clean it up, you can go back and find resources, you can go back and add examples. All that stuff needs to be done. But if you don’t just write it, get it on the page. You know, it’ll be stuck in your head. If you’re worried about all this up as you go, you’ll never get out of your head. You know, Britain effort says I’m on the right things just to get it out of my head. And, you know, that’s the truth, but you gotta write it, you know, no matter how bad it is, because if you don’t start by writing it, it stays stuck in your head. We get paralyzed by Oh, it’s got to be perfect. And oh, Scott, I’ve got to have this. I gotta have that. And often, that’s what I do. I just write it right, the terrible first draft, and then I may let it sit for a day, or go get a walk or go Yeah, yeah, you know, play with the cat or something.

Rob Cairns

yeah, yeah, those cat GIFs. You know, we know all about those

Todd Jones

Davinder, the king of cat GIFs.

Rob Cairns

Yeah, a shout out to Daninder. There’s no question. I’ve already gotten three this morning. So there you go, including one with a cat with the crown. But that’s another story. So this is the first product you’ve launched. It had its challenges. We know that? Um, do you want to talk about a little bit about the process about how you launch the product?

Todd Jones

Well, you know, a lot of things were already put together the terms of some of the worksheets and stuff I had done. And I mean, I had offered the majority that pack earlier this year to the agency trailblazers conference, and a few people download it. One of those persons was Paul Lacy, and he’s a man, this is gold, turn into product. And so so some of that stuff was already done. When I decided to go south, I decided that maybe some of it needed to not be so true looking. So we did some designing even the worksheets, I tried to design a cover page and make it look a little bit prettier use designer for a lot of that.  I think that’s one of those lifetime deals I got, we talked about LTD earlier, I think that’s one of those LTD, it was a good one too. And I use it for that to some of those sheets. And then a graphic designer friend of mine took the the core part of it, it centers around and did the branding and the graphics for it did that for me, you know, for complimentary, and so it turned out really nice. And then the vendor, I wrote the copy for the page, actually build a page. But I wrote the copy and the vendor took it and made it look like it is now. So using the information, the graphic design from friends. So looks pretty nice.

Rob Cairns

And then you’re using gum road right to distribute.

Todd Jones

I am I played around with different ideas. And early on, the vendor recommended that to me, because he’s used it to sell things in the past, it’s pretty straightforward, you know, they take their cut out of it, every everything you use is going to take a cut out of it. So that happens, it would have been nice maybe to have had a setup where I’m just using the strike us for cut but and maybe in the future, we’ll we’ll use that. But gum road was a great way to go start off, you know, they host the files and all you have to do is go in there and download the files. But I foresee maybe in the future uses something a little bit more personal. We’re cut out some of the fees, but certainly getting it out the door gum road was absolutely the best way to go. And I think you know, I’ve seen people but other services, products, services and gum road. So you know, it’s just real simple. They have a good platform. I got my first payout today. Best I can tell you with that good in your bank account this one it yet it was enough to go get a an online a biscuit gravy this morning. So yeah, that’s pretty, pretty pleased with that. And I don’t know if I stick with it. But you know, you think down the road, maybe I can host this a little bit more, maybe use easy digital downloads or something like that. And stripe, you know, I could probably cut back on some of that. But you know what it was, I’m still pretty pleased with the amount that came down this morning. So, I mean, the only way you could have been better to the twice as much I don’t think those fees really would have made that much of a difference in how I felt about it.

Todd Jones

And, and then he did some promotion in some groups and to some friends. And you know,

somebody was asking me how I promoted it. And I said, Oh, really very organic, you know, I had some friends to volunteer to share it for me. Some I wouldn’t expect and whenever I thought well, I could probably get the vendor to NASA, he told me he was going to NASA group and I could probably me, I’m not going to get this person, that person, but I had people to step up and say, Hey, let me share this for you. And one was Aaron plan. And she’s got a really nice following. She’s a real, real nice lady. And just, you know, and then some other friends that volunteer to share it on Twitter or whatnot, and give me some really nice, you know, a really nice promotion about it. And yeah, it’s been, I’ve been able to share a few groups here in there. And so there’s not been, I’ve told some other friends of mine, especially the copywriting world that I’ve done what I’ve done without spending a dime, and they’re, they’re really amazed that I sold 24 in two weeks with without spend any money. And I guess that is pretty good. There’s certainly some more things I can do. The vendor talked about, and that’s a good idea. I’ve said that chips do it. But doing some videos, you know, showing some stuff that I can put out, I probably do that try to do that when I get more time, I can still write some articles on the coffee pot blog, and maybe some more, you know, I have somebody who’s interviewing me q&a article, and once I get that, and that’ll probably help a little bit, I’ve had other people to offer to sell it and on their platform. So

Rob Cairns

Back to the whole relationship marketing discussion. And, you know,

you and I have talked about how marketing is, is a lot about the relationships you’ve built over the years. And that’s where the friends and the articles and the platforms all come into place.

Todd Jones

I think that’s why a lot of people, you know, I used to think that and I think it’s still the case, you know, you you wait to sell something when you when you have to you’ve been doing stuff for a while, right? You know, you don’t sell stuff to first year in business because you know, you know exactly. But that is partly that, you know, you spent you’ve gained some experience some some knowledge that you can share. So that comes with time. But I think another reason people make you do that is because you build up relationships over a period of time. That that can really help you when you launch something like this. So a good example of this is Joe quickies a commercial contract. We both know Joe runs a product service business and he still does his copywriting conversion copywriting consulting. But earlier this year, he launched the training and they’re just two videos and the slide deck for each one that I got in the first round, and cost me 99 bucks for both of them. I don’t know what it costs sales now things more. And he started by getting a list. He started lyst like last year, and he had pretty good it was basically Hey, I’m helping freelance copywriter freelancers, and so people signed up but he also had this fast network from his time when he did SEO before he ever did copywriting so he had him SEO connections. And he had he did a lot of content blog in when he first started writing and switch to conversion copywriting. He’s been on stage speaking at conferences and and he’s got all this you know, exposure. And that was just him doing what he does. Then he launched this, this thing, and I think these two videos are great for anybody who is freelancing and has to sell themselves, because the first one he calls fishing with dynamite, and it’s about how to build the authority to get people to come to you. The second one is about closing sell, which I met if I ever get back to where I’m selling something, I need to go back and watch that video really good video. But the bottom line is Joe, I don’t think he spent any money on promoting that either. He had people promoting it for him, because he is super helpful person to any freelancer. And he drops. I hate to say so cliche, but he drops knowledge bombs in the copywriter club, Facebook group all the time. But that’s what relationships do. Yes. He in I’ll like I said, I don’t think he spent any money promoting that. And I remember right, he said he made enough to help put a down payment on a house first house for him, his wife and his wife. So pretty good deal. And yeah, relationships can make a huge difference.

Rob Cairns

Yeah, you know, you’ve heard me say this, I, I attributed marketing stuff to kinda like dating, it takes time to build that relationship and get to get to the end point. And then when you get there, you know, what you’ve kind of got and, and anything worth working, worth worth? It takes time to get there. Like, it’s not like let’s go from A to A million in one day. It’s all about building. Right?

Todd Jones

Yeah. And then, you know, I guess the lessons you learn when you beat your head against a wall because things aren’t working too well, until you get to that point. But, you know, I mean, it definitely felt a little bit of, you know, I told I think it was Joel was telling us, like, you know, I felt it will posture syndrome right before I launched it. What do people think I’m done? What do people don’t want us to buy it? You know, and into some of the get that kind of response out of the day gate was pretty good. Now, we’ve gotten stagnant last couple days, figured out how to reignite that.

Rob Cairns

So Todd, if somebody really wants to get your framework, I think I think they should. First of all, they should go out and get it. You have a special running right now, I think until next week for 47.

Todd Jones

Some Yeah, we’re gonna cut that off on Tuesday. Looks like working with the vendor on that he’s not the change on the website. But yeah, right now it’s 47 and was launched price, and it’s going to go back tonight, it’s going to go up tonight seven, which will be the regular price, as of Tuesday or Wednesday, we’ll get that change. So if you get there Tuesday, and we haven’t changed it, Lucky you, but it’s gonna, we’re gonna change it somewhat Tuesday, back to $97. And I’ve had multiple people tell me, including Davinder, that definitely should be $97.

Rob Cairns

I told you, I think it should be 197.

Todd Jones

Well, it probably should be and maybe we’ll do something down the road where you can buy three different versions, you know, just just the framework and then a framework and the session with me and framework. And I don’t know if maybe we’ll figure that out down the road. But it was so new to me as kind of a proof of concept. Okay. once people start saying, hey, yeah, uses with a client, which Paul Lacey did do that, by the way, he took all the Frank took all those worksheets backwards from agency trailblazers, and he did in fact use it. Yeah. consulting gig with one of his clients to do walking through content. So it’s something I would like to see a few more people do that. But you know, that I feel like it’s a proof of concept really opportunity for me to say, Yeah, it really work. They have these many customers who have used it with their clients, or I foresee it doesn’t even have to be a web consultant using it, or even a digital consultant using it with their clients. Business owners who are very much do it yourselfers, I could see them buying and we have a lot of people that are do it yourself first. Understandable. Maybe they learned how to build a WordPress website or whatever. It doesn’t matter if you’re building WordPress website or Wix website or Squarespace website, it doesn’t matter what you’re building with, you still got to have the copy, you still have to have the framework, so I can foresee it being used, but do it yourself, you know, business owners as well. So we’ll probably eventually do a landing page just for that in the future. So

Rob Cairns

and how does somebody buy your product?

Todd Jones

Well, https://copyflight.com/wcf. I’m sure you’ll put them put that link in your notes, but I will. That is the landing page trying to keep it pretty, pretty simple. And you can buy it from there you click the button is basically a pop up for gum road, but you can buy it there. And that’s where we’re headed now.

Rob Cairns

How is the best way to get a hold of you?

Todd Jones

You can email me at todd@copyflight.com

Rob Cairns 

Thank you, sir.

 

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website copy framework book 01 Episode 36: Talking About The Copywriter Framework with Todd Jones